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Original poster

So the NHS has long gone

252 replies

DarkKarmaIlama · 19/12/2022 15:34

At what point do we think the government will do something about the massive elephant in the room the NHS has fucked off out of the window and is never returning.

This healthcare no man’s land is quite frankly terrifying. What are your predictions on this? All I keep reading is “it will get worse”. Can it actually get any worse?

OP posts:
BorisisaLune · 21/12/2022 07:25

Barclay, with a straight face, said on news this morning, just said Paramedics earn £34k and with average OT and shift allowance, earn £47k.

Lying xxxx.

Shite journalism too, wasn't even challenged, you d think the interviewer would have done at least some research or told to give the Tories an easy ride.

The Govt want the NHS gone, so many are linked to private health industry.

CoffeeBoy · 21/12/2022 07:30

BorisisaLune · 21/12/2022 07:25

Barclay, with a straight face, said on news this morning, just said Paramedics earn £34k and with average OT and shift allowance, earn £47k.

Lying xxxx.

Shite journalism too, wasn't even challenged, you d think the interviewer would have done at least some research or told to give the Tories an easy ride.

The Govt want the NHS gone, so many are linked to private health industry.

The bbc have been incorrectly reporting average nurses salaries and hcsw salaries for weeks now. They don’t even need to have a politician in there lying the newsreaders do it for them! Reporting it as fact, they’re not even saying “x says the average salary is x”.

candlesinthesnow · 21/12/2022 07:36

BorisisaLune · 21/12/2022 07:25

Barclay, with a straight face, said on news this morning, just said Paramedics earn £34k and with average OT and shift allowance, earn £47k.

Lying xxxx.

Shite journalism too, wasn't even challenged, you d think the interviewer would have done at least some research or told to give the Tories an easy ride.

The Govt want the NHS gone, so many are linked to private health industry.

What is the actual salary? I’d be interested to know as I have a colleague who likes to moan about the strikers and I’m sure she will soon say “did you know they earn xyz…”

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General health
midgetastic · 21/12/2022 07:38

www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/paramedic

Average salary as reported seems consistent

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 07:42

The NHS needs a massive reform but no one is brave enough to touch it, so they patch it up, pour some more billions that get invariably wasted and get on with it.

Whenever someone mentions a reform there is always hand wringing "But look at America". It doesn't have to be like America. But it has to be reformed.

Unifolorn · 21/12/2022 07:43

They start as a band 5, it now requires a 3 year degree instead of the 2 year course which means another year of £9k fees and maintenance loan to pay back, another year not earning any money, and another year before starting to scale the payscales. As with nurses salaries the average is enhanced by the high bands even though relatively few will ever reach that level as there are limited positions.

Unifolorn · 21/12/2022 07:44

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 07:42

The NHS needs a massive reform but no one is brave enough to touch it, so they patch it up, pour some more billions that get invariably wasted and get on with it.

Whenever someone mentions a reform there is always hand wringing "But look at America". It doesn't have to be like America. But it has to be reformed.

I know- US or nothing when the reality is plenty of hybrid models in between work exceptionally well.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 07:48

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 07:42

The NHS needs a massive reform but no one is brave enough to touch it, so they patch it up, pour some more billions that get invariably wasted and get on with it.

Whenever someone mentions a reform there is always hand wringing "But look at America". It doesn't have to be like America. But it has to be reformed.

Politically I don’t think anyone will touch it but it is becoming too much just pouring billions in.

I think under another model higher earners would pay more but it‘s not welcome because people think it’s more £ for everyone

helford · 21/12/2022 08:00

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 07:42

The NHS needs a massive reform but no one is brave enough to touch it, so they patch it up, pour some more billions that get invariably wasted and get on with it.

Whenever someone mentions a reform there is always hand wringing "But look at America". It doesn't have to be like America. But it has to be reformed.

How? and what into? poster after poster says this but with no meat on the bone.

The NHS is in collapse, not a good starting point to reform and in any case how does reform produce more health workers.

Pay is relatively low for the hours worked and stress is super high, which is why, those banging on about how well they are paid, need to ask themselves why so many leave if thats the case?

But the Govts plan to reform is very clear, tough out the current disputes, no talks on pay, continue NHS decline and force more and more down the PHI route.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 08:04

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 07:48

Politically I don’t think anyone will touch it but it is becoming too much just pouring billions in.

I think under another model higher earners would pay more but it‘s not welcome because people think it’s more £ for everyone

Show quote history

Pay for what though?

Right now there is no service to be paid for. It's a shambles and high earners pay more in tax and NI anyway.

I came here from Germany as a teenager, I am considering leaving now, because I'm getting older, even though I have spent most of my life here.

Wibbly1008 · 21/12/2022 08:10

iMO it can’t be saved. We have a bigger population and more health issues covered than was intended when the NHS was created. It can’t cope and wasn’t expected to deal with the sheer volume it is expected to. Sadly, most people can’t accept this and won’t agree it should go. In the past when it’s been raised that the NHS is finished, everyone has gone mental so now no government will accept the truth and do what is needed as people go mad. I believe we should have a basic NHS, GP appts, limited life or death health conditions, maternity, and all healthcare covered for children, but otherwise private insurance to cover everything else. I can’t see how it’s going to limp on any other way. If the NHS worked, every country would have one.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 08:13

A reform will be difficult indeed because our economy is build on low paid low hours jobs where the employers rely on the Government/tax payer to for top us. And the Government duly delivers, instead of taxing the companies that profit. Imagine asking employers to contribute to health deductions. Like fuck is that going to work.

And here we are. A massive work force that is underpaid, and a shrinking number of tax payers.

This is all going to go well over the next few years. Not.

I don't have an answer to what needs to be done. But I'm getting more and more worried and am considering moving.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 08:18

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 08:04

Pay for what though?

Right now there is no service to be paid for. It's a shambles and high earners pay more in tax and NI anyway.

I came here from Germany as a teenager, I am considering leaving now, because I'm getting older, even though I have spent most of my life here.

Show quote history

Pay for healthcare. Yes they do pay more in NI but from what I’ve read a German model would mean higher pay from higher earners. As you’re from there happy to have more information.

I understand why someone might leave as they get older I think it’s going to be tough as extra demographic pressure piles on.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 08:21

Even if you don’t do costly reform one difference between our system and others is a nominal charge m

This could be applied easily but politically it would be so unpopular a manifesto with it is unlikely to succeed

Moonmelodies · 21/12/2022 08:22

The Midlands Partnership NHS Foundation Trust has so much cash they're offering £115000 pa for a 'Director of Lived Experience'.

Unifolorn · 21/12/2022 08:23

It needs some upfront investment which will pay off eventually. The not so subtle elephant in the room is that the NHS is keeping people alive for longer than would have previously been possible, but invariably with a myriad or health and mobility issues that require either care or a high level of support in primary and secondary health as well as meds. Its not a popular view but there should perhaps be more scrutiny applied to operations and whether they're artificially prolonging someone's life at the cost of their quality of life.

Services need to adapt to the new demographics as well- mental health ambulances, transportation for those who have had falls and don't need the full ambulance treatment but need to be safely transported, reopening of local hubs/community hospitals so people are less likely to rely on ambulances to get to the central hospitals.

More 'half ways' between care homes and hospitals, even if lots of money is thrown at care homes to provide beds, many don't have the facilities to provide rehab beds for example, which make up a large portion of those needed. There also isn't the means to build these and resource them in the hope the nhs or councils will contract out to them. Importantly as well increase benefits for carers, not just those looking after elderly relatives of course, but those caring for children and dependents of all ages.

Reopening of sure start centres and health visitor clinics which seem to have vanished in many areas during covid. Actually addressing social issues that are known to have an effect on health. Better education around health and when to use x service and when it can be managed at home would also be helpful.

That's just the start, obviously too much effort so no one will do it.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 08:24

I've not lived there for decades. I not been very interested until now, TBH but if my tax and NI contribution here continue to rise for a service, that is frankly nonexistent, they why bother?

Also, I don't have to go back to Germany. I don't know, I've not got a plan, and I don't really want to leave, I have a very settled life here.

helford · 21/12/2022 08:26

There is plenty of money in the UK to pay for a good health service.

But there is no political will to do so - as i have arged before, we are going to need to raise taxes.

Other countries face demographic changes too but have proplerly functioning services.

helford · 21/12/2022 08:28

Reopening of sure start centres and health visitor clinics which seem to have vanished in many areas during covid

Sure start was shut done quickly after 2010 and health clinics also saw cuts during Austerity.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 08:28

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 08:24

I've not lived there for decades. I not been very interested until now, TBH but if my tax and NI contribution here continue to rise for a service, that is frankly nonexistent, they why bother?

Also, I don't have to go back to Germany. I don't know, I've not got a plan, and I don't really want to leave, I have a very settled life here.

Me too. I’m in London which imo is a better bet as younger demographic. I’d stay here and not move to a retirement location.

Other than that I’ll see what happens when Labour get in and assess. Although I’m not going far from my dc and they love it here.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/12/2022 08:43

I am in London and health care is dismal.

I don’t see Labour reforming the NHS. Pouring more money, yes, but it’s a bottomless pit, so how well that will work needs to be seen.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 08:49

I’m concerned about various things under Labour including tax burden. Anyway I’ll see. Maybe others are right and it’ll all be great.

helford · 21/12/2022 08:56

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 08:49

I’m concerned about various things under Labour including tax burden. Anyway I’ll see. Maybe others are right and it’ll all be great.

Labour aren't about to be going on a taxation spree and neither have they or anyone else said things will be great, you keep saying this.

For me the Tories have had their chance, 12 or 15 years by the time of the next GE is plenty long enough to improve things & they have, by any measure failed.

I cannot believe their intransigence on refusing to discuss pay with RCN Paramedics, its criminal behaviour, well, actually i can :(
Talk, negotiation? no, they'd rather kill people, both unions have said they will stop strikes for pay talks.

MarshaBradyo · 21/12/2022 08:59

Yep like I said Labour will probably get in. And I’ll see what happens. I’m not taken by policies so far but best chance is they drop them and deal with bigger issues.

Others can do as they wish of course and like I say hopefully they are right and it’ll be great.

Palacepicker · 21/12/2022 09:01

I think we will have to start charging for services - there is no choice, it really is a shit show. We need to move to a more European style healthcare system.