Older women and how they remember the menopause

[TroubledRabbit]

Just been chatting to my lovely, trained as a nurse, mil whose daughter is struggling with cancer treatment. Apparently she's struggling to sleep and I said, 'it must be hard with separating side effects from the menopause'

Quick as a flash, MIL declared she, herself, had no symptoms and sailed through so it was unlikely to be that.

I've been with DH a long time, Mil was 55 when I met her and a bit broken, not much fun, understandably weighed down by the previous ten years of high need elderly parents, teens and working.

DH remembers her debilitating migraines. her lack of humour in those days.
Since retirement she's fitter, more relaxed and good company.

Any thoughts?
Is this just simply as we age we don't want to think of our chubby toddlers as middle aged, starting to sag adults?
Has mil got such a firm grasp of the Grip that carried her through that tough decade that she cant, even now, put it down?
My own menopause, not discussed with mil, has been such a nightmare that I'm intrigued that the quick answer was 'sailed through'.

If her daughter is going through cancer treatment then it seems far more likely that it's the cancer treatment stopping her sleeping than anything else. TBH your comment was uncalled for and a bit shitty, directed to the mother of a daughter with cancer.

Your DH's teenage memories of his mother having migraines and "lack of humour" could also be down to her managing work, elderly parents and annoying teenagers.

OP would you presume to have this patronising approach to your MIL in any other circumstances? I mean, you do trust her to know when she went through the menopause, and also lots of women do find that life is nicer in retirement, less stressful and so on, so why the huge leap to disbelieving her?

My mother remembers sailing through menopause with no symptoms or problems at all...... The two teenage daughters at the time remember it a little differently...

And I will tell you something else... I was having some problems unrelated and the doctor sent some blood for tests and I asked if it could be menopause since my periods were hit and miss at that time (stopped entirely at 49) Doctor said no I was not in menopause.
Since then I have not had any problems with skin or hair. It is almost as if it did not happen.
My best friend went through absolute hell. Night sweats, day sweats, greasy hair just after it had been washed, migraines - the lot. I would get to hers and she was walking around in a slip as she was so hot. I felt like a fraud.

Some do sail through it though.
And unrelated health issues start to creep in, dealing with elderly parents etc, being knackered from work but financially unstable - it's totally feasible that she is right.

I'm 60. My periods stopped when I was 45. Apart from the odd hot flush and some night sweats I "sailed through" the menopause.

@Adultchildofelderlyparents & @darjeelingrose I tried, in my op to put in some context.

And I now feel awful that I might have upset mil with a passing comment. My sil is 50 and she has been at the mercy of her hormones throughout the time I have known her including PND & depression. Bastard cancer is currently dominating her life, tainting the present and impinging on the future. And it's not fair.

My local GPs certainly didn't recognise heart palpitations, tinnitus and various low level but significant problems as peri menopause five years ago. Why should my mil twenty five years ago known?

I'm under 50 and haven't had a period in 8 years. Zero side effects for me, thank goodness as I have enough going on...

But yes, I think we do forget the small stuff in our experiences - when enough time passes, like giving birth and sleepless nights.

didn't even know I had had mine. asked the nurse at a smear when i could expect it. she said at your age I think you have had it. no symptoms apart from periods stopping and weight gain(which just dropped off after a couple of years)

I would agree the dismissal of your comment about menopause may have been more about not wanting to bring another difficult issue into the mix, she has enough to be thinking about. And as many women are saying, thankfully not every woman has a bad experience with menopause, I was quite surprised that around a third of women use HRT, thought it would be higher. But it is pretty annoying to hear the comment about sailing through it if you are having or had a terrible menopause, and I agree it is often selective memory at work.

God yes, the palpitations! And insomnia and aching, aching joints. The forgetfulness. The advent of inexplicable overwhelming rage at nothing and everything, the can’t be arsedness, the falling into complete despair and listlessness. And all the rest.

All at bay for now with my beloved patch, like night and day.

So pleased for all the many people who don’t need it, but so insanely grateful for myself that it exists.

the joints were the first thing to get better, interestingly, the relief from pain was so huge, worth it for that on its own, better than all my physio and little walks and pilates put together.

Mums menopause was horrendous for her. Couldn’t go on HRT because of type 1 diabetes and the rages, depression and anxiety really took a toll on her and her marriage. I think menopause is now used as one stop shop for all ailments over 50 which is a bit crap. She still rages when out. I know I’ll be the same when menopause hits me, and it does hit you like a tower of cement for most women. What else is there if you can’t take HRT, genuinely interested.

I'm not a big fan of looking back at significant historical figures and diagnosing them in 2022 with mental health traits or physical ailments to explain and attribute decisions.

The menopause is interesting because we all have our own experience of it, there's no universal path, our memories may be clouded by the brain fog at the time.

There's a massive lack of research - read Invisible Woman if you want to get proper angry.

And if you included the background of a mental health service in society that in the 1960s could section a girl having our of wedlock sex, there's probably a lot not just hidden under the carpet but someone's put a big rug and coffee table on top.

I think I have probably gone through it (I'm 55 but have had Mirena coils = no periods for over 10 years). But the only clues were some mild anxiety, low mood, irritability. I didn't realise at the time they could be connected TBH. But no physical symptoms to speak of. My mum says she sailed through, I don't remember her having any issues either.

I've got 4 generations of women to report on! My great-grandmother had no symptoms and just 'sailed through'. My grandmother had terrible flooding (but had always had heavy periods since 12 yrs old - I can only imagine how dreadful that was in the early 1900s!). My mother had lots of hot flushes and was always flinging open the windows in winter, plus hot sweats at night. But otherwise they were her only symptoms. I also had hot flushes but no night sweats. Otherwise OK. I had a far worse time during my reproductive years with awful PMT and painful periods.

So this is my theory... go back 50 years or so, and by the time of menopause most women didn't work, had children who were grown up and had left home, and women were allowed to be 'old women' (so weren't being pushed towards all the effort of being skinny/sexy/injectables etc etc).

So actually they generally had very little stress at the time they went through menopause, and they weren't trying to hold down a job, deal with kids still living at home etc. If you had a hot flush, you'd probably be in your own home so you could sit down and calmly wait it out. That would make menopause easier for starters - I think daily stress has a huge effect on whether symptoms feel overwhelming or not.

In addition, whether or not they 'sailed through it', they had the privacy and space in their own homes just to be able to deal with it, which would have given the impression to everyone that they were sailing through it (particularly given that it wasn't seen as a polite topic of conversation).

I think those factors massively changed their experience of menopause, even if the symptoms were the same.

Sometimes your 40s and 50s coincide with parental deaths, relationship breakdowns, more stress at work, financial worries eg pension all of which can also cause anxiety, depression, insomnia, tearfulness - it can be hard to ascertain what is causing the reaction or whether it is a combination of circumstances and menopause.

All good points. So hard to disentangle what is what, isn’t it.

My mum's menopause happened after I left home, but she talked to me about her terrible mood swings and other symptoms and how much better it was once she got on HRT.

She also remembered her mum being similar at a similar age and she'd never know why... but now assumed that had been the cause.

I'm now getting quite frequent bouts of cystitis and more frequent migraines, and it really helps that I know my mum went through similar so they could well be related even through my periods are still fairly regular (50).

I had my last period at least 15 (maybe longer), years ago, so I presume I'm post menopausal. I haven't suffered any major symptoms at all, just the occasional flush but even that was not as debilitating as many others have had. I recognise that I have been incredibly lucky. My periods on the other hand were just Hell and I'm glad to see the back of those.

My mum swore she never suffered with PMT… (I was sharing my emotions being impacted) her children beg to differ! I suspect there was less discussion and less self reflection. Maybe she ‘sailed through’ in her mind but maybe those around her wouldn’t agree.

I’m not sure about your theory. 50yrs ago, the menopause aged women would have lived their fertile years with no reliable contraception and no access to abortions. I’ve read diaries and letters from this generation of women and the fear of being “caught” with a final baby when you’re mid40s was a common thread. Most women fifty years ago would have had grandchildren coming while still having school age children at home with them. They also would have still worked at least until 55 as that was the retirement age then (and often a mandatory retirement regardless of whether you can survive without your wages which comes with its own stress).

I don't think most women 50 years ago ie 1972 worked until at least 55. Many did not work or only until their first child. Some worked all the way through but not "most" imo

This is a very interesting topic. My mother suffered from undiagnosed mental health issues all her life and she went from been almost a non drinker in her 40s to a full blown alcoholic by 55. She was almost certainly self medicating herself through the menopause.
My MIL claims that she sailed through the menopause but I met her first when she was in her mid 50s and she was bordering on demonic. I think she just never actually thought about it properly.

I've been having a terrible menopause - insomnia, night sweats, dry skin, aching joints, hair trigger temper, pre diabetes etc. When I've talked to friends 15/20 years older the conversations go something like 'Oh I didn't have any symptoms. But around that time I split up with my partner/ had terrible rows/ couldn't sleep' I think a lot of things just weren't recognised as menopause symptoms at that time.