Why are Indian & Chinese kids attaining much higher than white/black/Pakistani children?

[Widilo]

I’ve been thinking this over today. DS recently went to a Kumon class (if you trawl through Mn threads over the years this is generally much hated on MN). All the kids coming out were Indian or Chinese, all the kids in her group Indian or Chinese. A smattering of black children and 1 white child (DS). DS won’t be going back (it was a trial class) because it just seemed to be repetitive rote learning of hundreds of sums, but clearly this is working somewhere along the line?

stats linked here www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest

On one hand we get told Scandi countries have it right with play based learning until older, and Asian children with rote learning younger

But our education system is overall good. People are attracted to it. Have more faith. It’s not all bad

I’m anglo-Indian. Rote learning is the basis people from India (like my Mum) learn everything. And yes by itself it is useless - but in the UK it can be valuable because rote + critical thinking gives you a perfect balance. Example - my DN goes to Kumon, and has memorised her tables up to 12, cube / square numbers up to 100, primes, has a list of memorised 4/5/6 letter words. She now doesn’t need to worry about technical recall during SATs and can focus on reading and applying her knowledge to the question.

Scandi kids learn how to read / write during Kindergarten. Yes it’s play based but as everyone goes to KG academic skills are built there.

That may be so but the general vibe is others have got it right. We’re fine.

And even in Scandi countries you see a difference in attainment between Afro-Arab-Indian kids and locals. A lot of European Oxbridge students are Afro/Indian Scandi kids lol

I wouldn’t know because I’m anglo-Indian. Mum taught me to rote the basics and I’m teaching my DC and DN. I actually don’t know how mono-cultural British kids learn here lol.

Rote learning of tables - all operations - to 12, and timed tests on tables is the method my DCs' RC elementary school used in the US, at least from the mid 90s to the late 2000s. They also learned Dolch words and were tested on them.

What age do you mean by Kindergarten?
This might be anecdotal, but we lived in Sweden for a while and our kids went to preschool there.
If I remember correctly kids started year one when they were seven (we left before our kids started primary school) and in their daycare they only learned how to write their name and maybe a couple other basic words, but not much.

The message I was always given, and one that I give my dcs, is that education gives you choices. I was expected to work hard at school and I expect my dcs to do the same.
We all still have social lives, other interests and screen time though my dcs screen time has always been limited.
They're not headed for a nervous breakdown and are happy when they achieve.

This💯... The same kids will then complain in 30 years time that they wished they were pushed more by the parents...

@RunLolaRun102 are you saying that the afro-indian-arab kids are also ahead of the local scandi kids?

"Why do you think that pushing children to succeed automatically leads to a nervous breakdown?"
@Dotingmumandgranny

Not for all, but definitely for some. There is a tonne of research on it - look it up
For example: adelphipsych.sg/pushy-parenting-and-its-profoundly-negative-psychological-effects/

Always better to encourage rather than push

And imagine pushing academic achievement on a kid with spLD like dyslexia or someone with ADHD

Also this

www.asiancinemablog.com/documentaries/permission-to-exist-a-documentary-on-south-koreas-education-system-and-mental-health-awareness-among-korean-teens/

@Georgarina

YYY to the valuing of effort and consistency vs. innate ability in the US.

That is reinforced by the GPA method of creating a picture of a student's calibre. Teens who are disciplined about doing daily homework and contributing in class are rewarded. The weighted GPA for honors or AP courses further rewards disciplined teens who are also ambitious.

@tulips27

You might like to look at the Irish CAO system of application and admission to university. Admission is based on grades achieved in the nationally administered Leaving Cert exam.

I'm Indian, my siblings and I are all high achievers,
We were not happy as children and lived I. Constant fear of upsetting our parents. A previous poster talked about the Asian B. Yes, definitely. I got a B once in maths. Never did that again

I'm also guilty of pushing my children to achieve. But only if they are capable. And I believe all children are capable of achieving, as long as it is their chosen area, a strength. I want my dc to be happy, but I also want them to be secure and able to live without poverty. I'm do teach certain values, work before play, leisure time is earned, to be consistent in effort, to persevere. My dd recently has joined the school netball club, they lost two matches and she wants to give up. I've told her that she should continue and not let people down. I believe this is important so she doesn't just think she can do as she wishes, and learns loyalty

Plus I remember an attitude amongst relatives, towards white families.
We never expected white people to succeed academically, awful though that is. We just knew their parents were too soft

This pushing kids academically must be related to the emphasis asians place on money and wealth I expect. They seem to place such a priority on accumulating wealth/ buying multiple properties etc. See it all the time in my job.

Let her quit the netball. My dad was like that. I'd go and try something to see if I liked it and I'd still be doing something I hated 4 years later. It taught me absolutely nothing of worth. Maybe she'd prefer hockey, but will never get the chance now you're forcing her to do netball.

This on suicide rates https://amp.scroll.in/article/694364/four-charts-show-why-india-s-youth-suicide-rate-is-among-the-world-s-highest]]

With this, a direct quote from the article "common cause for concern is the pressure from parents to do well in the national board examinations, especially for Class XII, before finishing school"

So yeah, anyone endorsing pushy parenting - just know the possible consequences

https://fpyouthcollab.org/our-content/op-eds/worldwide-issues/academic-pressure-its-significant-role-in-suicide-rates-amongst-asian-youth/]]

Becuase of white privilege?! Non white people have to work so much harder to get ahead

That doesn't account for the east European and Russian children's work ethic (or their prowess in mathematics, which is due to the Vygotsky system of teaching it).

This pushing kids academically must be related to the emphasis asians place on money and wealth I expect.

I'm interested in why it's called pushing. To me it's a case of keeping children focused on what's important.