Page 27 | Letby Case (part 2)

OneFrenchEgg · 2022-11-26T08:14:03+00:00

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4652340-lucy-letby-court-case?reply=121815754 follow up, remember rules around discussion of active cases

PearWhere · 13/06/2023 16:42

Not due to be back until tomorrow (Wednesday) and also they will sit on Thursday.

My guess as to the reason would be witness availability as these days look scheduled.

Quitelikeit · 13/06/2023 19:36

Did anyone see her list that she made on the day she was removed from the unit? She mention that a cap was left open (forget what it’s called) and that she was filing 2x datix forms

not sure if she filed them but she never once mentioned to anyone about someone leaving the cap open on one of the tubes going into the baby

the KC said she wrote the note as she was planning to cover her tracks as she realised she might have been busted

GemmaN17 · 14/06/2023 08:02

Quitelikeit · 13/06/2023 19:36

Did anyone see her list that she made on the day she was removed from the unit? She mention that a cap was left open (forget what it’s called) and that she was filing 2x datix forms

not sure if she filed them but she never once mentioned to anyone about someone leaving the cap open on one of the tubes going into the baby

the KC said she wrote the note as she was planning to cover her tracks as she realised she might have been busted

I didn't know there was a list. They did spend quite a bit of time questioning her about it though. That's the thing about this case, why would someone who had witnessed the decline of babies naturally (unknown causes of death at this point) then start to file paperwork about air potentially accidentally being introduced to the babies (when that's now what's is thought to have killed many of them). Why would it even be on somebodies radar? It's hard to not say what you are thinking as we are not allowed, to but your mind only goes one way.

Its like she is leaving a trailnof breadcrumbs of things to check for. I thought that when she was so insistent on the bags for the insulin babies when she asked if they had kept them.

Quitelikeit · 14/06/2023 08:15

Also she has not once denied the babies were attacked or murdered she has only claimed it wasn’t her who did anything untoward

Ill try and find that list - it was posted by a journalist so it is ok to share.

Quitelikeit · 14/06/2023 08:23

It won’t let me post it unfortunately

There are people who have been going to the court though and mentioned that she has been caught out on numerous occasions

It is eeerie that her back garden backed onto a grave yard though.

Her own barrister is back on today - hope he has got something remarkable up his sleeve otherwise ………..

Quitelikeit · 14/06/2023 08:24

They did dig her garden up during a search once

Prevmidwife · 14/06/2023 11:46

So following the live feed weve heard from the plumber/work man on the unit about the flooding issues, and then it looks like that's it? Will the jury be deliberating next? Or is there something else? I'll be shocked if that's it.

Quitelikeit · 14/06/2023 11:48

That’s what I’m wondering!

This means they are not even getting their own medical experts in to challenge the opinion of the crowns experts!

Maybe there was no budget

fairgame84 · 14/06/2023 11:57

Just closing statements then jury will be sent to deliberate from 3rd July it says.
Weird that the only defence witness was the plumber 😳😬

Quitelikeit · 14/06/2023 12:01

@FurAndFeathers great defence by Myers 😂😂😂

PearWhere · 14/06/2023 12:46

Gosh that's unbelievable. I know no defence has to be provided but I'd have thought they'd at least have witnesses to

Discredit air embolism theory
Say about people swiping in for each other, sharing security codes etc
Pathologist maybe as the air wasn't noted in some cases
Highlight poor care at the hospital / staffing levels.

Does anyone know anything about the KC? It's a surprisingly short defence. If LL hadn't taken the stand it'd be about a day vs 8 months!

PearWhere · 14/06/2023 12:52

And why aren't the jury deliberating until July? When I did jury service we went out straight away and I've perhaps wrongly assumed this was the norm. Those poor jurors having yet another long wait

Ameanstreakamilewide · 14/06/2023 12:53

PearWhere · 14/06/2023 12:52

And why aren't the jury deliberating until July? When I did jury service we went out straight away and I've perhaps wrongly assumed this was the norm. Those poor jurors having yet another long wait

Are they sequestered?

SchmeltzHerring · 14/06/2023 12:56

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fairgame84 · 14/06/2023 13:03

@PearWhere he's a highly regarded barrister and worked on high profile cases before.
@Ameanstreakamilewide no they aren't sequestered.

Closing statements haven't been done yet. Court was only supposed to sit 2 days this week then I'm assuming the next couple of weeks are not full weeks. They are discussing a legal thing this week and I guess it depends how long closing statements take.

Fourteenhouses · 14/06/2023 13:04

PearWhere · 14/06/2023 12:46

Gosh that's unbelievable. I know no defence has to be provided but I'd have thought they'd at least have witnesses to

Discredit air embolism theory
Say about people swiping in for each other, sharing security codes etc
Pathologist maybe as the air wasn't noted in some cases
Highlight poor care at the hospital / staffing levels.

Does anyone know anything about the KC? It's a surprisingly short defence. If LL hadn't taken the stand it'd be about a day vs 8 months!

I’d have thought too that her entire fb searches may have been used if it’s the case she searched for parents of other babies who came to no harm or did she only search for those who did as if I was on the jury I’d really want clarification on that

fairgame84 · 14/06/2023 13:05

And all Ben Myers can offer in her defence is 30 minutes of a plumber talking about blocked drains!

the majority of which were on delivery suite and not the neonatal unit. He didn't explain how it was relevant to the case, or at least it was covered in the live reporting.

LoisWilkersonslastnerve · 14/06/2023 13:09

Totally shocked that there are no more witnesses for the defence. We can't speculate obviously but it's looking like a verdict is going to be clear cut now. The defence don't need to prove anything other than that there's reasonable doubt of course but only one witness?! Thoughts as always to the babies and their families.

GemmaN17 · 14/06/2023 13:10

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PearWhere · 14/06/2023 13:15

No that's no how defence in English law works. It's not a TV drama where he can take the case and half way through say 'nah dont fancy it now'

Prevmidwife · 14/06/2023 13:29

Surely it's innocent until proven guilty. So surely the defence who are paid to defend her have more of a job to do? I'm appalled if that's it. I can think of tons of things they could say as lines of defence... don't get it. BTW not legal at all so no idea on this stuff but all through the case I've been able to see both outcomes equally so I've been able to think of how she could defend herself as a medical professional, although she hasn't always done that. In college we are taught to practice defensively ie always cover yourself and write contemporaneous notes as evidence to protect your own practice- granted noone expects anyone to be defending themselves against allegations of murder. So I'm amazed nobody can come up with anything else. It begs the question- have they given up and called it a day.

Peanutbutteryday · 14/06/2023 13:30

I’m completely have no background or real understanding on how it works but I always wondered this.. so if a defence lawyer doesn’t believe their client they just continue to defend if their client says they are innocent? Can a client say to their defence lawyer in private that they are guilty but do not want to plead guilty?

Prevmidwife · 14/06/2023 13:30

PearWhere · 14/06/2023 12:46

Gosh that's unbelievable. I know no defence has to be provided but I'd have thought they'd at least have witnesses to

Discredit air embolism theory
Say about people swiping in for each other, sharing security codes etc
Pathologist maybe as the air wasn't noted in some cases
Highlight poor care at the hospital / staffing levels.

Does anyone know anything about the KC? It's a surprisingly short defence. If LL hadn't taken the stand it'd be about a day vs 8 months!

Surely something in terms of differential diagnosis? Or research offering other explanations? Really shocked.

GemmaN17 · 14/06/2023 13:34

PearWhere · 14/06/2023 13:15

No that's no how defence in English law works. It's not a TV drama where he can take the case and half way through say 'nah dont fancy it now'

There is no defence he can bring that the prosecution won't tear apart. So no point continuing with witnesses in that respect. I didn't mean he couldn't be bothered anymore and I don't this is a tv drama, in fact I think that's pretty low thing to suggest given the subject. I really hope the families etc... aren't reading this.

fairgame84 · 14/06/2023 13:36

Peanutbutteryday · 14/06/2023 13:30

I’m completely have no background or real understanding on how it works but I always wondered this.. so if a defence lawyer doesn’t believe their client they just continue to defend if their client says they are innocent? Can a client say to their defence lawyer in private that they are guilty but do not want to plead guilty?

The defence cannot lie to the court so if she tells him she's guilty, he can't defend her. If she maintains her innocence and her lawyer believes deep down she is guilty then he can defend her.
The problem is the Letby has agreed that she accepts the evidence of the prosecutions medical experts, she just disagrees that she is the culprit. There's not really much the defence can present when she's gone on the stand and agreed with the prosecution 🤦‍♀️