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Christmas song misogyny taught to kids

160 replies

kindnessmatters · 25/11/2022 09:03

We need to stop the misogyny of words in everyday life, that lets men think that they can do whatever they want against and to women
The words of this christmas song seem to strongly show coercion and rape:
What do you think? How can we prevent such words continuing to be used ?
How can we stop these creepy sickening words be taught to children in schools, churches and community choirs please?
Gabriel’s Message
The angel Gabriel from heaven came,
His wings as drifted snow, his eyes as flame:
"All hail said he, thou lowly maiden Mary,
Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
"For known a blessed mother thou shalt be,
All generations laud and honour thee;
Thy son shall be Emmanuel, by seers foretold,
Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
The gentle Mary meekly bowed her head;
"To me be as it pleaseth God," she said.
"My soul shall laud and magnify God’s holy name."
Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
Of her, Emmanuel, the Christ, was born
In Bethlehem all on a Christmas morn,
And Christian folk through-out the world will ever say:
"Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
My friend has tried to ask an otherwise-seemingly-good-choir-master (male) not to use them, but has been ignored

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 26/11/2022 20:59

PhotoDad · 26/11/2022 19:51

@ScrollingLeaves
Yes, I'm not really calling Charles Wesley a heretic! But actually a lot of well-known hymns and carols have lines which are theologically dodgy. (I've spent some time studying early heresies as part of a degree and then you start to spot stuff.)

Not, I think, "Most Highly Favoured Lady" though. I'd like to know the context of where/when it's going to be sung if the OP returns!

(Coughs in Catholicism)

Well, you say that, but, um, Methodism...

FloresApparuerunt · 26/11/2022 21:11

We're talking theology, but can we talk syntax for a moment?

'Veiled in flesh the godhead see'

(Or, in normal people speak, see the godhead veiled in flesh)

And, from the carol in question:

'For known a blessèd mother thou shalt be'

(Again, in normal people speak: thou shalt be known as a blessèd mother)

It's a miracle anyone has any idea what they're on about.

watermelonseeds · 26/11/2022 21:19

Are you nuts?

LittlePearl · 26/11/2022 22:57

FloresApparuerunt · 26/11/2022 21:11

We're talking theology, but can we talk syntax for a moment?

'Veiled in flesh the godhead see'

(Or, in normal people speak, see the godhead veiled in flesh)

And, from the carol in question:

'For known a blessèd mother thou shalt be'

(Again, in normal people speak: thou shalt be known as a blessèd mother)

It's a miracle anyone has any idea what they're on about.

But hymns, songs, poems etc aren't 'normal speech' are they?

I think 'veiled in flesh the Godhead see' is perfectly understandable (linguistically), and beautiful.

The challenge is the theology, not the syntax!

Babdoc · 27/11/2022 16:18

The full line is “Veiled in flesh the godhead see, hail the incarnate deity”.
It’s that way round so that it rhymes! And clearly refers to the incarnation of God as Jesus “The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.”
The language of the carol, and the whole Authorised Version of the Bible, is sheer poetry, and often moves me to tears. So much more satisfying and awe inspiring than modern happy clappy hymns and flat, prosaic translations.

PhotoDad · 27/11/2022 16:22

@Babdoc I'm actually a huge fan of the carol, it's lovely, and it has a wonderful trumpet-like tenor line. I don't even mind the word "veiled" really.

Now you mention it, "Word made flesh, the Godhead see!" would be perfect.

Create10 · 27/11/2022 16:35

Blondlashes · 25/11/2022 09:47

Mary consented - it’s crystal clear that she did.
She was an incredibly strong woman - she spent every moment aware that her son would die a terrible, humiliating, painful death. And she watched him go through it - know he had to and unable to stop it.
She was the first person Jesus went to after his resurrection.
She holds the highest place in Heaven - Queen of Heaven and Earth.
God gives us free will - to choose. Of course he would give this choice to the mother of his Son.

Wasn't she a child?

Clawdy · 27/11/2022 16:41

MorrisZapp · 25/11/2022 09:48

Oh god. Is it Baby its Cold Outside o'clock already.

Looks like it - yawn.

SarahShorty · 27/11/2022 16:50

First of all, that's a hymn, not a Christmas song, petty distinction, but I had to get that out first.

Secondly, this is why the church is the way it is today. People take things the wrong all the time. It's just chaos.

Softplayhooray · 27/11/2022 17:02

Oh God seriously? I remember singing hymns at school every day for years and not taking any notice of the lyrics!! Kids aren't going to read that kind of dark stuff into these lyrics at all. They'll just think they're singing a hymn.

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