Christmas song misogyny taught to kids

[kindnessmatters]

We need to stop the misogyny of words in everyday life, that lets men think that they can do whatever they want against and to women
The words of this christmas song seem to strongly show coercion and rape:
What do you think? How can we prevent such words continuing to be used ?
How can we stop these creepy sickening words be taught to children in schools, churches and community choirs please?
Gabriel’s Message
The angel Gabriel from heaven came,
His wings as drifted snow, his eyes as flame:
"All hail said he, thou lowly maiden Mary,
Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
"For known a blessed mother thou shalt be,
All generations laud and honour thee;
Thy son shall be Emmanuel, by seers foretold,
Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
The gentle Mary meekly bowed her head;
"To me be as it pleaseth God," she said.
"My soul shall laud and magnify God’s holy name."
Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
Of her, Emmanuel, the Christ, was born
In Bethlehem all on a Christmas morn,
And Christian folk through-out the world will ever say:
"Most highly favoured lady." Gloria!
My friend has tried to ask an otherwise-seemingly-good-choir-master (male) not to use them, but has been ignored

Is this a joke?

This is one of the most disrespectful posts I’ve ever read.

YABVVVVVVU.

HTH.

You can stop reading and commenting if you like..?

As for whether Mary consented - she obviously did. That’s the entire point. Just do some basic research before making stuff up?

That’s true. But in this case it seems particularly ott. I mean there’s literally songs about people killing each other and songs that are actually sleazy and gross. Yet this song is sooo over attacked.

instead of just banning perfectly innocent things why not just teach logic and sensible thought. And consent. I’m sorry but no one ever sexually assaulted someone because of this song. It’s a fun lovely song about two people flirting. People speak like it every day. People enjoy flirting. Why censor entertainment that isn’t actually bad, pretending that people don’t flirt this way? They do.

what we should be censoring is the aggressive negative abusive crap kids play on games, listen to, etc.

to me, it seems like a perspective thing.

You can't use a Christian text to "talk about misogyny" and not expect people to tell you their understanding of the text - especially when you have placed your own agenda onto the text in the first place.

Any decent Biblical scholar will tell you that Jesus' treatment of women, the words of Paul in his letters, and the female characters in the old testament were groundbreaking for the portrayal and treatment of women. It's more modern church leaders in certain denominations that have used scripture as a weapon.

This post screams:
"The Bible is misogynistic and creepy and I hate it. We need better role models"
Shows a strong, female lead who is a willing, active and enthusiastic participant in the narrative and plays a key role in the plot. She has lines and a full backstory and features throughout the rest of the work.
"No, not like that"

If it's specifically about the song then I agree that the words "gentle Mary humbly bowed her head" were probably deliberately chosen to create an image that the male author found pleasing but it's one line in a carol otherwise telling an accurate version of the story.

But I doubt you'd feel differently if the words were "courageous Mary looked above and with a proud voice said" so 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you're trying to raise awareness OP then there are plenty more intelligent ways to do it. You're just making yourself look stupid by picking on one particular folk carol and claiming it's about rape when it isn't.

Of course texts are written within a historical and cultural context. Wowzers, it's not rocket science. Of course we know that historically texts were overwhelmingly written by men. No shit Sherlock.

You must have a very limited repertoire of what you can read, listen to or watch. You just miss out on A hell of a lot of (excellent quality) books, songs, operas, films....

Is this an official mumsnet campaign?

YABU. Mary very clearly consents.

baby it’s cold outside however is creepy as hell.

@kindnessmatters we've moved this over to our Chat topic now.

You can stop singing religious carols if you like?

YABridiculous

Tbf, the meek shall inherit the earth (so shut up and stay compliant in the meantime is one possible interpretation of that!)

FFS.

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Misogyny seems to exist mainly in the minds of the embittered and petty.

Yes. Also, humbleness is a key virtue for both male and female Christians.

It doesn't sound like the words of the carol is your problem.

Too many men think it is OK to behave 'badly' towards women in order to raise their position in society - in any religion / society -

Fine. Let's teach kids "Santa baby" instead 😂FFS, give it a rest.

It's one of my favourite carols.

But how about the cherry tree carol as an alternative? Portrays Mary as the powerful one backed by Jesus when Joseph has a grump and Mary and the unborn Jesus put him in his place

and that those who have been harmed by such creepy 'wont take no for an answer' men in the past

Gabriel's an angel announcing to Mary that she is the chosen mother of the Messiah, not a creepy won't take no for an answer man.

or hear other people sing such triggering words...

And I thought the thread about why religion shouldn't be in the Remembrance Sunday service was batshit.

Christianity is riddled with misogyny.

This is a wind up. Has to be?

Every Breath you take is creepier.

If you think Christianity is misogynistic you should try the classical Greek and Roman gods - I think the ancient Greeks practically invented the word! Brother/sister incest, Zeus/Jupiter constantly unfaithful to his sister/wife and glorified for it, Aphrodite/Venus as everyone’s sex object… And from what I recall of the Old Testament, the early Jews had a hard time seeing women as anything other than babymakers.

Yeah, there's Mary, meek and compliant and full of love, a blank slate with no needs of her own

She was a teenage (at most) girl in a 1st century rural society just removed from nomadism, meek and compliant was what she was supposed to be - what did you want her to do, march up to Pilate, kick him in the balls and tell him she was taking over?

Considering she ended up as Queen of Heaven I'd say she didn't do too badly considering the lack of previous experience.