How are teachers paid?

[Wallstick]

Often when I see a thread about teaching there are comments about teachers working unpaid hours. Out of curiosity how does that work? I know they don't finish work when the children leave. But do teachers get paid only while the children are there? So they work 6-6 say but only paid 8.30-3.30? I don't think that should be legal tbh.

At our DC school there's lots of extra things that I wouldn't have seen when I was at school and it makes me feel uncomfortable that the teacher isn't paid for this? There's scrapbooks and they update an online journal with photos and notes, I see the teachers at the weekend psa events, DC say the teachers are in the lunch hall too. Are the teachers not getting a lunch break then? When I went to school it was dinner ladies and supervisors, teachers were in the staff room usually.

Well surely they get paid an annual salary, so just get the same amount every month? So as an example annual salary £24,000, divided by 12 = £2,000 per month (minus tax/NI etc etc).

Sorry, forgot to add - if their working hours are 8 till 4 but they worked until 6, they would still get the same amount.

Teachers don't clock in and out they get paid a salary not by the hour

They have directed hours, over 195 days (190 teaching, plus 5 training). Pay is then averaged out over the year into 12 monthly payments.

The unpaid hours argument is when people add up how many hours they actually work, and then divide their salary by that number to find that they’re actually working for £2.50 an hour or something.

There is sooooo much work that needs to be done. Long hours at home at weekends and after the kids have gone to bed.

At my school we have to do a daily lunch duty and therefore only have 30 mins a day to catch up from the morning/set up the afternoon.

Primary...

Teachers get paid for a set amount of hours 1265 hours. This generally covers the school day plus half an hour either side, an hour staff meeting and includes the 5 PD days.

Staff meetings always overrun.
PD days generally overrun.
Talking to a parent at the end of the day and late parents uses the half an hour at the end of the day.
The first half an hour is setting up for the day.

Marking and planning is extra.

1/2 hour planning each day is given (generally in a 21/2 hour block. Mine is an hour PE session x 2 - the children are collected late so it is rarely a full hour). 2 1/2 hours a week to plan
5x English
5 x maths
1 x science
1 x theme/topic
1 x RE
2 x PE unless there is specialist cover.

Wages are paid monthly so 1265 x hourly rate / 12 months + 4 weeks holiday pay.

I'm in Scotland and we get paid 8.30-4.30. People also think we get paid 3 months holiday. In actual fact, we get paid 1 month holiday and the other 2 are school closures - no work, but also no pay. They then total up the pay we're due and divide it by 12. So yes, I often work 8-6 and the amount of unpaid overtime I work is scary. Add on to that that my last few ' pay rises' actually resulted in a pay decrease - due to a similarly timed tax and N.I rise - and I am now in a position where my wage is worth 25% less than it was in 2008.
Please support our strikes, there are many rumours that the government are purposefully failing schools to encourage the beginning of academies in Scotland. An absolute disaster in the making!

neu.org.uk/workload/directed-time
This explains it. My partners hourly rate is only just above minimum wage. He works 12 hour days. He goes in at 6am. He can't cut corners as he wants a permanent job. So this is the only way to do the job to a good standard. He can do 10 hour days if he cuts some corners.

There is so so much to be done. I'm now working in adult ed (so much less pay.)

So I get paid around £60 to teach a 3 hour GCSE class. Except I also have to do data entry for the class, it took me 2hours to resource and prep the class and I had to deal with a student crisis after the class. I also need to liase with learning support and sort exam access arrangements. So £60 for 7 hours in quote a responsible role looks far less appealing...

Salaried school teachers do the same but kind of calculation but on a bigger scale. You're paid to teach the class AND all the stuff that comes with it that isn't expected within the classhour.

I have never known a primary to stick to directed time. As well as staff meetings and parent eves, we are expected to do new parent meetings, residential meetings, open evenings for new starters, reading workshops for parents etc. On top of that we have to 'volunteer' for all PTA events where parents aren't present as there's no way they could go ahead without teachers. The problem is it takes me from 8 til 5.30 minimum to do my day job (ie planning, teaching, marking, printing) so every time you spend two hours watching a disco you then do two more hours at home that evening. We also regularly cover lunches (impossible to recruit middays now) and at times breakfast and after school club.

NB I don't doubt other jobs are waaay harder. I feel lucky to work in such a pleasant school. I have worked in another industry and there's pros and cons for all jobs. I am just responding to a question about teacher hours.

The hours are insane.
Today I teach all day so 8:30-3 in my school. Then I have an hour trapped time, where my head of depa has called a meeting about mock exam moderation. Then a 3hr parents evening. I'll finish at 7pm. I arrive at 7 am.

I get paid for the 8:30-3pm bit. Everything else comes under directed time and then the "reasonable hours" clause in teacher contracts that mean the average is a 55hr working week.

I love my job but the terms are intense. It's almost like a 9-5 compressed into 37 weeks a year instead of 52.

It's like pretty much any salaried job. We are paid for x number of hours over x number of weeks with x weeks holiday. The resultant figure is split into 12 and paid monthly.

Like most salaried jobs, we often have to work more hours than we are paid for in order to get the job done well.

They get a salary that is paid in equal monthly instalments, irrespective of hours worked, like many professionals.

I think teachers are sometimes a little disingenuous when talking about salaries, saying that they aren't paid for the holidays, but their salary isn't pro-ratad, so if their salary is £30k pa, that's what they receive in a year, before tax, NI, pension and student loan deductions of course.

They don't receive 43/52 x £30k, which is what they would if they were only paid for term time, plus statutory holiday and the other 9 weeks a year unpaid.

In Scotland teachers are contracted to 35 hours a week, plus an additional 35 hours a year planned professional development time. I know no one who doesn’t work significantly more than that.

A lot of salaried people do this. It's the nature of being paid a salary.

I'm on a wage, so am paid for all hours that I work and extra for any time worked over.

My husband is a secondary teacher. He works 7-6 everyday and in the evenings and at weekends too. Today, he is there until 8pm as there is an event on.

Just a salary for his directed hours. No time in lieu or overtime.

Doesn't often get a lunch break, he does lunch duty, detentions, calls, extra sessions for year 11s, talks with students etc.

Thanks for the replies. It sounds mad, if you always have to work more than the allocated hours to get the job done right you should be paid for those too. I will support strikes if they happen. I don't think ours have done any since we've been there.

I agree. I would agree that any salaried job that regularly needs you to work more hours than you are paid for needs a rethink. Like every job I have had!

It is which is why there is a recruitment and retention crisis in England. I believe but don’t know enough about it that work load is a bit better in Scotland.

Teachers get the same salary every month, yes.

In England at least, that's 32.5 hours per week throughout the year - so 6.5 hours a day. This pretty much covers the time children are in school and a little either side.

I suppose in theory, it should balance out with the holidays, i.e. maybe you do 10 hour days but a lot less in the holidays. However, for most class teacher at least, they will still do a lot of unpaid overtime! Hence why I don't have my own class anymore, and have taken the salary cut.

I don't think it's fair to say that every salaried worker does this. My programmer husband and social worker sister, both paid much more, can take TOIL for their extra hours.

Like most other professional people I know - it's not just limited to teachers! But I think teachers are always more keen to point out what long hours they work because there are still ignorant people who think they only work when the children are in the classroom.

Oh Rocking there's always one.

The thread was specifically asking about teachers. You say teachers are pointing it out, it's because they were asked to.

It's part of the pay structure to the extent that when you look at any adult ed or tutoring job the pay is per contact hour but there's an agreement you have to have already prepped/mark work outside that contact hour.

In apples

So the same as most other contracted jobs.