How are teachers paid?

[Wallstick]

Often when I see a thread about teaching there are comments about teachers working unpaid hours. Out of curiosity how does that work? I know they don't finish work when the children leave. But do teachers get paid only while the children are there? So they work 6-6 say but only paid 8.30-3.30? I don't think that should be legal tbh.

At our DC school there's lots of extra things that I wouldn't have seen when I was at school and it makes me feel uncomfortable that the teacher isn't paid for this? There's scrapbooks and they update an online journal with photos and notes, I see the teachers at the weekend psa events, DC say the teachers are in the lunch hall too. Are the teachers not getting a lunch break then? When I went to school it was dinner ladies and supervisors, teachers were in the staff room usually.

Here is an example re. marking. Workload is not calculated per student as it is in HE. I was teaching A level on a 0.6 contract with over 40 students. Marking was expected (so directed time) at least every two weeks. An essay takes 15 minutes to mark and feedback on (feedback is monitored centally), and that is when the going is good. So that’s already 10 extra hours per week before any of the other 10 million things I was expected to do, hardly any of this was included in my regular hours, and I was only being paid for 18.5 hours per week. I left teaching.

Ex teacher here. I went in for 7.30 and usually left around 5/5.30 as I had children at home. Marked or prepped (more marking obviously for older primary but shedloads of prep for ks1)most evenings, worked at least one afternoon at weekend. One evening CPD or staff meeting per week. Nice holidays admittedly but it simply doesn’t make up for the feeling of running to keep on top of things, and the pressure from non teaching SLT to do even more. It got progressively worse which is why I’m an ex teacher. There is a reason for the awful retention figures.

I have to add though, the problem with the entire system is the job has completely changed since I was at school as a child. You used to get a tick box report card that must have taken the teacher minutes per child, once per year. The teacher wouldn’t receive phone calls from parents every day dictating where in the class wee Jimmy would be sitting and how she was to cut his sandwiches for him. There’s now sooo many online systems that need completed as well as the greatly heightened expectations of lessons which have come from all of this modern technology. Not to mention the impact technology has had on kids and how dramatically worse (and more violent) the behaviour in schools is now.

Teachers have never said no or said when enough was enough. We’ve just let it all pile on top of us and continued to do it every year. Full time teachers in my authority are supposed to work 35 hours per week. When a teacher hits 35 hours they should be, like any other normal job, leaving and doing no work at home. The reason they don’t is they’ll then have the head teacher in observing their poorly planned lesson (that they haven’t had time to organise) and it will all be their fault. Wee Jimmy’s mum will be up at the school wanting a meeting because he hasn’t been pushed on in his maths etc. It all comes down to us looking bad and being to blame if we don’t do double our working hours per week almost. It’s a never ending spiral of work that you can’t get out of and you’re never good enough no matter how hard you try.

Sorry for the essay 🤣

When I was a trainee we literally had sleeping pods in the office so people could get maybe an hour's sleep before carrying on with the all nighter (and next day) to get the deal done. Bit awkward seeing senior partners wandering around in their boxers 😅 In my next job I would regularly work 80 hours a week despite being contracted to do 40. I don't know anyone in a professional role that hasn't had to do similar.

To be clear - I am fully in support of the teachers' strike because this isn't a race to the bottom! Just answering the question. I completely agree that teachers' pay isn't commensurate with their hours and level of responsibility.

Sorry, 10 additional hours every two weeks. That was only the beginning of the expected extras though. Preparation. Admin load per taught student. Personal tuition with large admin burden. Marketing events, parents’ evenings. Complete system changes every year so reinvention of record keeping etc. to meet new requirements.

@angstridden2 coming to join you very soon, no holiday can make up for that feeling and it seems more of us are now realising this 😅

Re other professions, my nephew is a lawyer.When he was training yes, he worked ridiculous hours to meet client expectations and to impress the legal firm so he would get a training contract. Now fully qualified for several years and rarely works out of office hours unless ‘on call’. Very well paid too!

Do you work yourself OP?

I think that can be relevant to the views of those, who as PPs have said are also in demanding salaried jobs, working long hours, with no overtime or lieu leave, but are trying to also balance school closures, day time school meetings or events often with little notice, and more recently also the issue of young kids needing home schooling while parents are trying to wfh - some of whom had jobs that required even more crazy hours because of the pandemic.

I was lucky that my child was gcse stage so needed no care - but he had one teacher who taught on line - for all other subjects he was emailed a handout once a week and told of a half hour slot in the week where he could use instant chat to contact the teacher if he had a query. I appreciate not all schools or teachers were so atrocious - I know of many schools who did teach properly remotely

But nevertheless those parents who are or have bern in these positions will be less supportive of a teacher strike and the further disruption to our children’s education and our own work - we all believe in fair wages for a job - but for salaried professionals many many people work excess unpaid hours - but teachers are more heavily unionised than most others and so are often heard loudest.

When a teacher hits 35 hours they should be, like any other normal job, leaving and doing no work at home

Many jobs don't have that luxury. While there are obviously significant issues with pay and conditions for teachers, many working in other jobs, whether better paid or not, will roll their eyes somewhat at the notion of reliably being able to clock off at 5 pm, or limit their working hours to 35/40 pw.

It is almost possible to plan and prep good lessons in time allowed for prep. It is worse at primary level. I taught same subject to GCSE groups X 2 so 8 hours X 2 so 16 hours plus A level groups X 2 so 3 1/2 X 2 so 7 hours. Also registration for tutor group 1 hour per week. Teaching time 24 hours per week I got 4 hours prep per week. Plus 30 mins staff briefing twice a week. Up to 29 hours per week. 2 X duties at lunch time 30 hours but got free lunch on duty days. Full time but 4 prep sounds generous but some weeks 1 prep would be taken for cover of sick colleague.

This has also been the case for me which is why I support the teachers' strike. TBH as a trainee a 12 hour day as mentioned on this thread as an example of teachers' hours would have felt like a dream but it does get better (and better paid) whereas teachers seem to be expected to slog it out for (relatively) crap pay for their entire career

When a teacher hits 35 hours they should be, like any other normal job, leaving and doing no work at home

If you assume teachers have 13 weeks holiday which is approx 8 weeks over the normal annual holiday that would equal 280 hours. Divide this by the 39 weeks they work results in an extra 7 hours per week.

Most solicitors will be expected to retain responsibility while off sick or on holiday. Make sure all key dates and deadlines are dealt with or passed to someone suitable to cover with sufficient background etc.

It's good to be able to do a second job, as a carer, or on a tutoring school, in the long holiday.

Not all of those 13 weeks are paid though.

✊🏻

In England and Wales people are paid monthly so the payment is spread out over the year - unless you are on a temporary contract

Yes it is but their pay only includes 28 days holiday which is the statutory 20 days and 8 bank holidays. The rest are unpaid.

One of my colleagues had to work all night to close a deal on his actual honeymoon. I've had to do conference calls/negotiations multiple times on holiday. Thank fuck I've found a better workplace now!

Teachers are paid at the end of August, December, January and April etc when they have holidays - the monthly pay is the same

What I am saying is that the 8 weeks extra holiday equates to 7 hours per week. Clearly if teachers were required to work an extra 8 weeks then pay would rise. I do not think that teachers are working an extra 20 hours per week - as I have said before working alongside other tasks is not the same.

I think the other aspects of the job are more of an issue.

FFS. As stated at the beginning of my post, I can't comment on other professions. The OP is asking about teaching and I was replying about teacher contracts. Nowhere did I state that this applies to teachers only.

Seriously, do other jobs have to clarify every remark they make about what their role entails?

We're talking about teaching! Not about other jobs!

They are paid an annual salary. It's slit equally over 12, months.

Do you actually know any teachers or what they have to do outside of pupil facing time?

I am astounded that someone can accuse so many people of lying.

Teachers are not a homogeneous group - schools vary as do their requirements. Sadly the movement of schools to trust out of LEA control in my view has made things worse.

In addition as I have said before some teachers are perfectionist and sadly there are some who should not be in the job.