WWYD - hate group set up about DD12

[Freeekedout]

Last week, DD12 discovered a WhatsApp group had been set up about her. She isn't in the group, but someone told her about it and very quickly showed her the group info so that DD saw who created it and the names of the girls in it. The girls are in DD's year group at the same school. DD didn't see the messages, but given the title of the group was the word 'hate' followed by DD's name, it's pretty obvious that the purpose of the group was to be unkind.

DD informed the school and I have also spoken to them. They say they are 'investigating' but told me that I won't be informed of sanctions for the individuals that are in the group. They also said that I could make a complaint to the police.

DD is understandably upset and I'm furious. DD is a hard worker, doesn't have a mean bone in her body and has done absolutely nothing to deserve this. There is no anti bullying policy on the school website so I don't know what steps the school should be taking to deal with the perpetrators.

Had it not been for someone telling DD about the group this could have continued and who knows where it could've ended. School seems reluctant to deal with online bullying and going to the police seems extreme.

What would you expect to happen? WWYD?

Aslo, might be worth looking into the girl who showed your DD the chat. Does she have any sense why? Was she trying to let your DD know it happened so that she could take action, perhaps too scared to 'tell' on the others herself by going to a teacher? Or was she trying to be cruel, making sure your DD knew that others were talking about her? If there's some chance that it was the former, a nicer child who perhaps didn't know what she'd got herself in to, maybe she could be helpful in terms of providing screen shots.

A similar thing happened to my child a couple of years ago. We ended up changing school. Sadly, the mob mentality won and the school admitted there wasn’t a lot they could do.

I have seen two similar situations. These were awhile ago but had very different responses. In one case a hate group was set up about my 7th grade niece. It was a chat group on Whats app. It grew until pretty much everyone in her grade had been added to it (some kids left it and most didn't post). There were about 6 girls who did all the posting. None of the kids said anything about it to her or anyone else for a long time. One of the ringleaders ended up adding my niece to the group to show her that the people she thought were her friends weren't and that she had no friends. It was reported to the school and the group was shut down but the school's attitude was that it wasn't really about my niece as these ringleader girls had been mean to many of the other girls in the class and the school was 'dealing with it'. Nothing happened and they bullied her in many ways until she left the school the next year.

I came across a Facebook page (years ago before the SM platforms) dedicated to hating a 15 year old girl. I actually knew the girl from a community activity and knew she already had lots of mental health issues and had been bullied by her peers before. She was very immature and silly for her age and I think that made her more vulnerable but I also knew a lot of contextual factors about the really crappy life she had that her peers didn't know. It was a public page with lots of kids from her school on it although again only a few were frequent contributors. In addition to mean comments, they were posting candid pictures people were taking of her and then trashing her appearance in each picture. I made a fake account and anonymously contacted her school principal and linked the page. The page was gone within 24 hours and the principal contacted me back immediately to say thank you and that the situation would be dealt with. I heard from the girl during the community activity that she had felt really supported by the school after they found out she was being bullied and that the other girls who bothered her had gotten into a lot of trouble. It doesn't seem she ever actually knew about the page or saw it as the same girls also bothered her at school on a daily basis. While I don't know exactly how the school handled it, she felt supported and that tells me they did it right.

Getting the police involved hopefully will scare the bullies more than the school would. It just adds another level of seriousness and might force their parents to take it more seriously. Their parents would want to avoid a police record as it might hamper their future post 16 choices. So getting the police involved would send a strong message to the bullies.

Isn't there any other way she could be travelling in? It seems awful for her to be back on the same bus with her bullies. They'll make it hell for her.

Another vote for informing the police, it definitely adds another layer of seriousness.
There's hiding behind sm and then there's having a police officer knock on your door wanting to speak to you and your parents.
I contacted the police when dd was bullied (physically) at school and they were great, took it seriously and went to speak to the parents.
It actually stopped.
Dd didn't want me or the police involved as she thought it would make it worse, I took that decision out of her hands.
If you leave it with the school to deal with what are they actually going to do?
Detention, suspension, a nice little chat to find out what problems the little darlings are suffering from to make them act out?
It's a hate crime, report it to the police

If the school suggested police, go to the police!

When the school said you could take this to the police what they meant is we strongly advise you to take this to the police but they can’t/don’t want to say that outright.

See page 6 of this: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/1069688/Preventinggandtacklinggbullying_advice.pdf

School can discipline pupils for behaviour outside of school! And they can also report behaviour to the police themselves (but of course they won't!) such as this as it would be considered "malicious communication".

The school also must have a behaviour policy in place that pupils and parents should know. If they have nothing they are breaking the law- note it may not be called a "bullying policy", but it should be on their website.

I am so sorry for your daughter. That sounds horrendous.

Report to the police, because it's a hate crime.

If the school is a maintained school, it must have the behaviour policy, including anti bullying policy, on its website, or another website which parents can access. If it's an academy, government guidance says it should have the policy on the website, but not must. However, it should be available to any parent who asks.

And yes, as a PP asked, it should include cyber-bullying
The school I used to work at, which is an academy has this definition
"Bullying is behaviour by an individual or group, repeated over time, that intentionally hurts another individual or group either physically or emotionally.
Bullying can take many forms (for instance, cyber-bullying via text messages, social media or gaming, which can include the use of images and video) and is often motivated by prejudice against particular groups, for example on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, special educational needs or disabilities, or because a child is adopted, in care or has caring responsibilities. It might be motivated by actual differences between children, or perceived differences.
Bullying involves an imbalance of power between the perpetrator and the victim.
This could involve perpetrators of bullying having control over the relationship which makes it difficult for those they bully to defend themselves. The imbalance of power can manifest itself in several ways, it may be physical, psychological (knowing what upsets someone), derive from an intellectual imbalance, or by having access to the support of a group, or the capacity to socially isolate. It can result in the intimidation of a person or persons through the threat of violence or by isolating them either physically or online." [(My emphasis]

This must be so hard to deal with, OP. My heart goes out to you and your daughter.

It's great that she is open with you and told you about it, and it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

Just in case this is of any use: www.ahaparenting.com/read/12-ways-to-empower-your-child-against-bullying-including-cyberbullying

What would I do? I'd be telling the police, finding out who the parents are and be having words with them, and taking it to social media if nothing was done. Probably not the best solution, but it's what I'd do.

Yes I would inform the police. Get this nipped in the bud before it escalates further
One more of the long list of reasons why nobody under 18 should have a smart phone. Very dangerous weapons as we are rapidly discovering

Your poor, poor dd. No extra advice but just support

I found by bitter experience it's better not to involve parents, especially if it is a group of kids. The parents are often worse than the kids and will defend their behaviour.

Do not involve the parents. Let the police handle the parents and have words with them and the DC.

Please don't put it on Facebook. Surely that would further shame your daughter potentially? I can completely understand the need to find out if school have followed through and done anything, but in your daughter's shoes I can't think of anything worse than my mum then sharing this on social media. I appreciate this wouldn't be your intent but maybe look at it from a different angle.

I was pleasantly surprised when school told me exactly what punishment had been given out to the child that physically attacked mine in a completely unprovoked attack and it was witnessed by a teacher. It did give me satisfaction and also meant that when Ds was asked about what happened he could say what happened and also what the punishment was.

School also told me his parents were embarrassed and appalled by what their child had done and happily read out our parental statement about how we felt about their child too. We said Ds is giving him a second chance, we are not as forgiving. He touches Ds again and we will go to the police. Luckily that was the end of it.

OP I hope school come down on this really hard. We chose the DC's school based on their pastoral care and their behaviour policy which we knew was strict because we wanted our children to feel safe and protected at school. In all honesty in the 8 years we had children there they were incredible at stopping any whiff of bullying behaviour.

Find out who the ringleader is. Wait somewhere that you know she will pass, when she is alone (find out what way she walks to school, for example).

Get out of your car and say her name - ask, with a smile on your face, if you have a word.

Keep your voice low so no-one else hears the words you are saying - and tell her she leaves your daughter alone and shuts the group down immediately or you won’t be happy and you will find her and she will regret it. It’s in the delivery though - channel your inner psychopath - you have one chance to show her you mean business.

Do it quietly and quickly, can be done with a smile on your face but no direct threats but still delivered in a terrifying way.

Low, quiet voice, but hold eye contact with her and don’t break it. Tell her you will not be happy if you have to deal with her again. Finish by asking her “Do you understand me?” Ask her more than once if necessary.

Feel how angry you are and scare the shit of her, but do it quietly. If pulled up on this by anyone (for example, school at a later date) say you saw her unexpectedly when you were out and just decided to have a friendly word and ask her to be kinder. Look very innocent when you say this.

Look how animals fight to protect their young. You don’t have to harm anyone, just look into their eyes like a predator and scare them.

Find out what the parents are like. Either appeal to them nicely - “Oh you know what children can be like! Just want to sort this out nicely, no need to involve school, hope we can sort it all out!” and don’t slag their DD off. Or, speak to them in a threatening manner too- depends on the type of parent.

The malicious communications act is most definitely a new piece of legislation that can be applied to situations like this, however I would look at whether it can be applied to children, as they are very young.
I would hold off informing the police until you can be sure that there is something they can do. It is very tricky, if they were older you would have a better chance of action. I would not inform the police, I would wait for the school to take action first, and see if the problem solves itself before escalating.

Personally I would put your dd first, and try not to make too much of this, it might be better for her if you modelled a calm and level approach. The school have this in hand dd, and we are going to see how things work out.

Unless you know the content of the messages really is harmful (you have said you haven't seen the messages, so we don't know for sure) Just because the whatsapp group says 'hate' in the title, it might actually be a fairly silly set up by a bunch of children being children, and not necessarily very offensive or hurtful, or intended to cause great harm. Given they are just 12, girls of 12 can be very silly at this age. I would pause, and wait for an update from the school.

In the mean time how is the bus going?
Does your dd have her own set of friends she can spend time with?
How much exposure does she have to the troublesome girls?
Are there alternatives to the bus?

I wouldn't put it on Facebook but I would absolutely speak to the police. I agree with the previous poster who said the school is subtly trying to get you to do that.

These kids need to know they've crossed a line.

I wouldn't advise this. It could turn out very badly for you. You are advising waiting to ambush a child and then threatening them? I don't care what's happened, this isn't ok.