Why the hate for Qatar when people flock to Dubai?

[piddocktrumperiness]

I 'm not quite getting why people are quick to criticise Qatar and its human rights record and treatment of LGBTQ+, when every country in the gulf does the same. This government is in bed with the Saudis, sold lots of landmarks to the Qatari Royal family and many brits are quick to emigrate to Dubai. We even accept sponsorships from these countries.

For the record I'm not condoning any of these Gulf regions- I believe they are all equally bad and treat not only LGBTQ+ badly, but every nationality that is not white American/European/Australian.

I just don't think you can pick and choose- you either state that you condemn all of these regions, or you kind of keep quiet. If the World Cup was held in the Emirates, with most of the games in Dubai, I don't quite imagine the same criticism take place?

So why is the news singling out Qatar?

Without a breakdown of numbers of workers from each country by age it's hard to work out whether 6,500 is really a worryingly large number over the period of decade or not.

thank you - that is far far far too many. How anyone can look at that number and just shrug it off with "well, they're ok to me" is baffling

Been to UAE once. Wouldn't go back.

Funny that their « tipping point » seems to be the flavour of the month though. Strange that they have no problem with visiting countries with worse records but their « tipping point « is the latest fashionable cause. Some might say that’s hypocrisy

also it’s not for people to prove there were no deaths building stadiums - it’s for you to establish there were.

How do you know it's far far far too many? I hold no brief for Qatar, who seem pretty scummy, and are a ridiculous place to hold a World Cup, but there's huge numbers of migrant workers there. Over the period of a decade some of them will genuinely die of natural causes even if they're accountants in air conditioned offices. Without analysis you can't tell whether the heat-related stress hypothesis holds up.

How are you not still understanding this: it is the football world cup. It happens every 4 years and people are unhappy about where it is and how it was awarded. NOW is exactly the time to be involved.

And if you'Re just sniping for the sidelines you can fuck off with that. Really.

How do you know it's far far far too many?

6,500 deaths. Are we haggling? how many wouldn't be too many?

Thanks for your perspective expat

I disagree with the laws around homosexuality and woman’s rights. I dislike the way many low paid immigrant workers are treated but I don’t think isolating a country trying to progress and work within a global culture is the way to bring about change.
Our country is setting up to send people to Rwanda despite many human rights concerns and there is a very loud voice around sending asylum seekers back to their country of origin without hearing their claim. Human rights in their countries of origin are often restricted and particularly bad for women and LGB people. Yet some of the very people kicking off about football are likely to be the same ones failing to recognise the human rights abuses carried out here in U.K. In many cases, we don’t exactly treat immigrant workers well. We’re not very good at protecting women either.

As a lone woman visiting and working in both the UAE and Qatar, I have never felt anything but safe. Never experienced anything but the utmost respect. Never felt second class, nor dismissed. Exactly the opposite, in fact. I’ve experienced a culture of deep respect, overt and respectful protection. Someone mentioned Sheikha Moza earlier and they are right. Her leadership was a key driver to improving girls education and a visible role for women.

Plenty of gay friends have travelled to the Middle East and had fantastic holidays. Gay colleagues have never felt unsafe or disadvantaged, but have always been mindful of the cultural differences. It’s not that gay couples can’t kiss in public - nobody with an ounce of cultural sensitivity would kiss in public. My husband and I would get disapproving looks if we ignored the cultural norms and held hands walking through a shopping mall. Public displays of sexuality are unacceptable be that gay or straight. It’s not unreasonable to show the people of the nations you are visiting a degree of respect.

I don't know. If there were two million ex-pat workers in Qatar with an average age of fifty then 6,500 over the course of a decade would be excellent and I'd happily believe they're mostly genuine natural causes. If there are a hundred thousand with an average age of thirty then it would be appalling and obviously due to terrible mistreatment. The raw number tells you nothing

ExpatinQuatar it's really interesting reading your info on actually living there. Thanks for posting

The raw number tells you nothing

is true and I'm looking for reports. The fact that they are secretive about it is telling though.

It’s not that gay couples can’t kiss in public - nobody with an ounce of cultural sensitivity would kiss in public. My husband and I would get disapproving looks if we ignored the cultural norms and held hands walking through a shopping mall.

There's a world of difference between getting 'disapproving looks' and getting arrested FFS.

That gives Qatar one of the lowest death rates in the world so why would you boycott a low death rate? The number is the reporting of ALL deaths over a extended time period of more than ten years for nationalities that reported deaths. It has zero to do with FIFA or the World Cup at all.

How many people died in the UK over 12 years? Why don't you put that number out as a sign of some horrible thing.

Someone went through all the reports on the Qatar reddit page and posted links but don't let facts get in the way of your faux outrage.

I'm boycotting it primarily because of FIFA corruption, the fact that they don't have a tradition of playing football is a huge part of that.

The fact that Qatar (and other countries, but they'Re not hosing the WC right now) has a bad track record on human rights is also a reason for me not to give it the time of day.

I already said i was looking further into the deaths. But any deaths and abuse of workers is another reason to boycott it.

To the naysayers and whatabouters: why does it bother you so much that people are boycotting it?

Someone went through all the reports on the Qatar reddit page and posted links but don't let facts get in the way of your faux outrage.

I'm not now because "faux outrage" is a pathetic attempt to - what? make me change my mind? I'm not outraged I am furious that the FIFA functionaries are still walking among us and not rotting in jail.

You do you

If you want to take a stand about something, you should be informed. You should know the facts and know what you are actually taking a stand about. Faux outrage is being angry without having a clue what you are angry about. Posting pictures about 6500 or 150000 deaths of migrants building stadiums that didn't happen means you are protesting a fake event and therefore outrage related to fake event is faux outrage.

There are actual fact based issues if you would be open enough to learn about them and research and find out what is really going on. Reading a headline on social media and then putting yourself out there as being for justice without having any clue of what is actually going on or the context, and refusing to learn about it isn't activism at all. Nothing you do it making any difference or helping anyone if you don't even know what you are protesting.

Nobody is forcing anyone to go anywhere.

Don't. Tell. Me. What. To. Do.

I have repeatedly said here and elsewhere: I'm boycotting due to FIFA and football and the human rights abuses (are you denying they exist?) is a side issue but part of it.

I ALREADY SAID I'M GOING TO READ AROUND IT.

But you're so sure you are right and everyone else is wrong i'm beginning to believe you're the Qatari sports minister.

I wouldn’t go to Dubai either. Some people don’t care, I suppose.

It’s the hypocrisy of it that’s really getting to some people. For the past few years the Premier League, FA etc have taken it as their job to endlessly lecture their fans about social justice and political issues - rather than just playing football. From the BLM knee taking to rainbow laces campaigns and more recently climate issues. Unsurprisingly they are silent about the myriad of human rights issues in Qatar. It stinks.

Qatar all came about with some serious corruption under Sepp Blstter's watch at FIFA. The world's media really should have been calling this out for all the previous 12 years but haven't. I think Netflix have a new doc out, I mean to watch it.

I

And as a heterosexual couple, if we kissed in public we run the risk of arrest. If you are an unmarried couple sharing a room in a hotel or flat you run the risk of arrest whether gay or straight.
The risks and level of disapproval would undoubtedly be worse for a bay couple but similar rules apply to unmarried straight couples and gay couples. Most are fine if they choose not to flaunt their relationship in public.

I wouldn’t particularly choose to go to either of those destinations if I’m honest.

However isn’t keeping an open and honest dialogue with them better than shunning them? Surely just shunning them will cause
massive bad feeling and is more likely to lead to a negative outcome?

One of the things that surprised me about living here was how segregated the Arab/Muslim men and women are socially. They live in separate spheres for the most part. A man and a woman holding hands and kissing would stand out far more than two men or two women holding hands. In the more tourist / 'western' parts of the city, a man and a woman holding hands wouldn't get any attention either. There is a lot of leeway for non Arab, non Muslims here - especially in the tourist, downtown, hotel zones. As long as you show basic respect, no one bothers you regardless of what they might think in their own mind. I have never been hassled or bothered. It is a very safe place to live. I walk by myself late at night and feel perfectly safe.

For many of the Arab / Muslims, the expectations on them come from within their own families and cultural / religious communities - not from 'Qatar'. For example, Muslim women here wear niqab, hijab, shayla - loose head scarves, or no head covering at all - and it is all perfectly fine and seen as they should do what is right for them.