Why the hate for Qatar when people flock to Dubai?

[piddocktrumperiness]

I 'm not quite getting why people are quick to criticise Qatar and its human rights record and treatment of LGBTQ+, when every country in the gulf does the same. This government is in bed with the Saudis, sold lots of landmarks to the Qatari Royal family and many brits are quick to emigrate to Dubai. We even accept sponsorships from these countries.

For the record I'm not condoning any of these Gulf regions- I believe they are all equally bad and treat not only LGBTQ+ badly, but every nationality that is not white American/European/Australian.

I just don't think you can pick and choose- you either state that you condemn all of these regions, or you kind of keep quiet. If the World Cup was held in the Emirates, with most of the games in Dubai, I don't quite imagine the same criticism take place?

So why is the news singling out Qatar?

When I worked in corporate business we had a client based in Dubai and UAE. I went out there for project meetings and even though I was the most senior manager from my company at the meetings the clients would ignore me and speak to the men in the room. It took 2 years before one of them finally shook my hand.

Not somewhere I'd go for a holiday, even before I start thinking about their appalling treatment of the workers in construction etc.

Yes, but the views of some religious groups do not stop people in same sex relationships getting married, does it?

Most of the people commenting on these thread have never been to the Middle East. Many have never spoken to anyone from the Middle East or been to their houses or discussed anything beyond the banal with them. It’s a shame because it hinders progress on both sides.

There are 195 countries in the World. I'm not going to get to all of them, so I prioritise the ones that don't oppress women and other racial groups. I couldn't cope with the bling either. Is that ok with you Itisbetter?

@AutumnCrow I'm not sure whether your post is targetted at me. How was my post marketing Qatar? I was literally slagging the entire region off?
I'm no fan of Qatar and any of the gulf states. For what it's worth, I have Middle Eastern heritage so this disdain runs deep as these gulf nations have pillaged and ruined beautiful countries in the area through their proxy wars and support for crazy regimes.

No for me, but as I said- I draw a blanket " they're all crap" rather than "Dubai is nice, let's go there for holiday" which seems to be what famous people do, and what young people looking for work do.

As a pp said, it is cognitive dissonance

I am currently an expat living in Qatar. Single woman. The situation here is not at all how it is portrayed in headlines on social media. The history and current sociocultural progress is quite nuanced and very interesting when you get into it. Don't get me wrong - there are major human rights issues however they aren't all really Qatar driven. For example the majority of the companies and managers of the labour force are Indian - from caste / class based communities who enforce their own beliefs and views on their employees. That is another facet of the issue. Qatar makes more progressive policies but they don't trickle down in application to the people who should be putting them into effect (and there isn't really any accountability). Qatar policies require a minimum salary for all employees, accommodation allowance or provision, usually a food allowance, and permission to keep one's own passport. Labourers and domestic staff still flock to Qatar because despite the issues, the situation is still better than in their home countries and they can send far more money home and give their families far better lives than if they weren't working here.

Qatar is a mish mash of cultures and people, with very, very few of them being Qatari. Qatari citizens make up about 8% of the population. Indians make up about 30% of the population.

The last couple Emir's have been pretty progressive (by comparison to certain other countries or past Emir's) but it is like moving the Titanic in some ways. There is a lot of change happening but the starting point was so archaic that over the 30 years since social progress really started, there is still a long way to go. Additionally, the first focus from a social perspective was on ensuring health care and accommodation and education for the population. They are starting to get to human rights issues now and I think will focus on this more post FIFA - but there are very strongly held views by much of the population (that are non Qatari and even non Arab) that get in the way of the progress.

With regards to women, generally as a society it isn't that strict but certainly within families and specific cultural communities, there are still major issues. However the push to educate all Qatari women over the past 15 years has led to incredible progress. Most got their degrees abroad, many did masters and they are now in positions of leadership in the country. They are divorcing their husbands and are a very independent and assertive workforce. Educating them was a major initiative of Sheikha Moza (the previous Emir's wife) who is a very respected public figure here. Her husband's insistence that a woman be in a leadership position and lead health and education initiatives was ground breaking here and she has made a phenomenal difference.

I maintain that saying gay people not wanting to go somewhere they are persecuted is revolting is, in itself, revolting.

@Twiglets1 if you think you saw a gay couple in the mall holding hands in Dubai, were they Indian in appearance? I ask because it is commonplace in their culture for men to hold hands as they walk around.

@LaGioconda UAE Federal Law no 29 of 2006 mandates the right to education for all persons with disabilities, regardless of their nationality. It's not just the UK that does that. I'm not saying the system is perfect but it's come a long way and, for locals with SEN/disability, they have access to far superior healthcare then the NHS can provide.

Only in the last two years. Prior to that, it was illegal.

Men in Qatar holding hands isn't an issue. It is cultural and not seen as a sign of being gay. Since men and women are quite separated here in some of the Islamic communities, men spend a lot of time with other men. There are reports of people who are openly gay being deported. Qatar is strictest with its own Qatari citizens and it is very unlikely that any cases involving gay Qataris would go through the court system, they would be dealt with "internally". Outside of Qatari's, there isn't going to be much persecution. Likely detention and deportation are the main consequences.

The Uk Royal Family don't shy away from being friendly with dignitaries such as the Emir of Qatar. The Queen welcomed the Emir of Qatar to Windsor Castle earlier this year. Thats screwed up if you ask me.
The Royal Family even posted about it on their Twitter account.

I don't suppose it's surprising that the Royal Family are not too fussed about appearing to welcome dignitaries from countries which don't support (understatement!) homosexuals when seeing as King Charles is now acknowledged as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England a organization that refuses to change Canon law to allow gay marriage.

I maintain that saying gay people not wanting to go somewhere they are persecuted is revolting is, in itself, revolting.
People can want or not want to go wherever they please. I’m not the desire police ffs. I find the idea of never going anywhere people don’t feel exactly the same as you and have exactly the same cultural norms and prejudices revolting. A sort of woke apartheid.
You really don’t have to agree, or disagree with everything another country does to visit it. I can understand being too scared for your own personal safety not to go somewhere but not too scared to see what somewhere is like.

you can defend it all you like @ExpatinQatar but you're living in a country with an appalling human rights record. And by working there you're helping them prosper. I assume you're ok with that. I, and many like me, are not.

I was at a football match today (German 2nd division) and there was a huge banner in the stadium bearing the legend "#BoycottQatar2022" and it got huge applause, as did the one in the Berlin olympic stadium later for the Hertha v Bayern game. There is a lot of support for a boycott, and I'll be joining them.

It's not just about the human rights, that is bad enough. PP are right, the WC in Russia was an appalling decision but at least that country has a history of playing football. Qatar? not so much. So no, i won't be supporting them or giving them any of my money as much as i can possibly avoid it.

Is my own country perfect? no. (neither, dual citizenship) but bloody hell i do what i can to make things better from voting, going on demos and volunteering etc. Could i do that as a woman in Qatar? could i fuck.

Usual social media witch hunt topic of the month. Last month it was Holly and Phil and now it will be anyone having anything to do with the Qatar world Cup.

Yawn. You have no idea what a lot of us are up to when we're not posting here.

Womens rights, workers rights and human rights are not a "topic of the month". Maybe for you, have at it. Some of us are more involved.

This completely.

I don't even know who those people are.

The Queen’s coffin viewing queue jumpers

We need Qatar. Especially at the moment with fuel etc.

Hence why our government is very very quiet

@Brefugee - of course Germany got their gas cheaply off nice Mr Putin.
I wonder where they are getting it from now if not from some dictatorship or other.

What's your point, @Bramblejoos ?

My point was that Germany is probably buying their gas. So making a stand over football is a bit hollow.

Pretty daft thing to say then. I am here and we are doing our best to hold our politicians to account for the decisions made by the last government.
That is something i can do because i live here.

Something else i can do is protest the corruption at FIFA by boycotting the Qatar world cup. I also protested the awarding of it to Russia - but i watched that because the country itself and a lot of the people there don't support the government.

I really don't get how you can't understand that.

Am assuming you're posting from the UK @Bramblejoos ? And that you find things the British have done recently and not so recently are fine so you don't have any problems with how other countries behave?