Has you dated a Muslim? Need some advice.

[Hilltr]

I'm the one who's Muslim. Long story short but I've started dating my best friend after he told me he had feelings for me. Its early days (a week!) and things are great.

However I realise dating a Muslim isn't like dating your regular person. I've a few things that I've asked him to be onboard with which he's happy with. I explained everything and laid it all out bare so he knew what to expect and change his mind if he wasn't happy with anything. But since he knows me quite well he's pretty familiar with my culture/ religion but it's not the same knowing someone and being in a relationship with them.

Anyway, my question is I don't want this whole issue to dominate our relationship and I want to make things as easier for him as possible and wondered if anyone can give me tips on what would have helped if they have experienced anything similar.

no meeting up in my community. This one is because I don't want my family getting any shit

This is based on my bad experience, but if I had to do this in a future relationship I would run a mile. Been there, done that, been the secret no one can know about, it's shit. It's also a lack of compromise, because in my 'culture' this isn't how we treat people who are important to us, so at some point it just feels shitty to be on the end of, whatever reasons you have for doing it. None of his family could know about me, but (for eg) he also refused to meet mine, even picking me up from my parents' house one time he called my phone from the street rather than just knocking and saying hello. So yes - in his culture you don't meet parents unless you are getting engaged, but in mine it's rude to do what he did.

There's a weird hierarchy of wrong religion/colour/nationality/race/caste/education level etc and to be found wanting on this (in my opinion) nonsense scale just erodes your sense of self-worth after a while.

The no sex/alcohol/pork etc etc is all totally doable as a mark of respect for your beliefs - but acting like you don't exist/aren't in a relationship you are/a shameful secret the community would disapprove of is just corrosive for the person having to do it.

I wouldn't want to be with someone that wouldn't stand by their actions even if it raised eyebrows in the community etc. If you think it's such a bad thing to date a non-Muslim then don't, if you think it's not a bad thing have the courage to be honest about it to your family.

^ oh just read you’re a single mum, I’m really sorry to say that might impact things (it shouldn’t but it could) even if you’re Jewish or Christian or actually even Muslim.

the ayats that say a Muslim man can marry a Jew or Christian say a chaste woman, and some scholars have interpreted this to mean a virgin, some haven’t but in general, a lot of Muslim communities from Arab, to south Asian and everything in between as obsessed with virginity

@Lillonely I think you’ve misunderstood. OP is the one that’s Muslim.

One of my parents is a Christian and the other a Muslim. They have been married for 39 years. We were raised Christian but there was a Quran in the house and we learn about Islam. My Muslim parent never drank and essentially lived a very moderate/relaxed Islamic life.
one attends church the other prays at home (no mosque in their town)

👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👏

@Hilltr

It’s lovely when you find someone who understands. I’ve only known of a few people who have understood the situation in the 17 years I’ve been with my Husband. Some people are very well meaning and think they get it, but actually they don’t. I had to shut out a lot of people’s opinions and do what I felt was right, which proved to be a winner every time.

It’s brilliant that the man in your life knows you very well and has knowledge of the Muslim and Asian communities. He had the opportunity when you mentioned your limits regarding sex and bacon for example, and he had every opportunity to walk away - but he hasn’t. He will no doubt have known of this anyway, or have had a good idea before you started to have a relationship, but he still wanted to make a go of it with you. These are very good signs.

I think as long as you’re open and honest with him about why you can’t be seen as couple in your own community (I’m sure you have anyway), then you can’t go wrong. This will give you the space and time to grow and enjoy yourselves as a couple before there’s any pressure on you, or any gossip from within your community.

I know of a couple who have again been married for a long time - he is white and was a Catholic, and she is Asian and Muslim. They had a brilliant hidden relationship, and he decided to convert to Islam for ease and convenience (in both of their words). There was some initial resistance to their engagement and marriage by one elder in their family, but everyone else was happy for them.

The relationship of the above mentioned couple, and that of my own could’ve been short, as we may not have been compatible. By having relationships outside of your area and community, you are afforded this freedom to date and decide for yourself without judgement, gossip or pressure.

If you’d like to PM me about anything, please do. I wish you the very best of luck. Just enjoy one another and listen to your heart.

@Hilltr worth a read

This is what a baby who wakes 5 times a night does to you, renders you illiterate. Soz guys

well then OP ignore my first comments

you said your parents wouldn’t care? Is that if you are dating or married a non Muslim?
i think you need to understand the impact psychologically speaking on the not being seen together in your community, that’s quite harsh and shows at least on some level you are ashamed of your partner and do prioritise the community.

are you dating with the potential of getting married or dating to pass the time? You know islamically he’d have to convert, no imam would perform a nikah On a Muslim woman and a non Muslim male

Ditto. My parents (mother Catholic, father Muslim) have been married nearly 48 years. It hasn't always been easy balancing the traditions of both and it helps that neither of them are extremely devout (father does practice but prays at home, has done hajj, observes Eid, mother observes Xmas and every once in a blue moon goes to church) but they are still together and had several children.

OP, I have known a fair few (practicing) Muslim women who married non-Muslim men. It can and does work for many but there usually is compromise and adjustment.

It would be a no from me.

How does it actually work though? Have they carved a life away from her family and community? Or were the families Muslim by name only? For most even nominal Muslims, a conversion is required (even if it’s just on paper). As a born Muslim myself, I do struggle with this as it’s quite clear that Muslim women can’t marry non Muslims, so by default the Muslim woman who does can’t be that observant, so I do wonder why bother with everything else. (Aware this is problematic and probably cultural conditioning but it’s how I think)

ive never ever known it to work out, and In truth the Muslim woman has pretty much known that from the start. Most painful example was a Muslim woman dating a Sikh man, he’d never convert due to his family backlash and she’d never marry a Sikh but they both set themselves up for heartbreak. One day she just stopped talking to him and 6 months later married someone else

I have a couple of female Muslim friends. I am an atheist and would love to ask them questions about their religion but I worry I might offend if I did. I can be very probing. In a sense I feel this fear of mine creates a barrier. So I know it's not the same as a romantic relationship but I think allowing for in depth conversations would build stronger bonds - would benefit the relationship. My DS also has Muslim friends and they are very very close and they have very in-depth conversations. My DS also an atheist. They have known each other since little. Not sure if that helps?!

What ‘probing’ questions do you want to ask about Islam that would be offensive? And I assume that you’ve done your legwork and actually done some reading/research on the religion, if you’re actually interested in learning?

I am not Muslim and went out with a Muslim guy years ago. The situation was a bit different though as the only adjustment he asked of me was not eating pork when together (and I actually gave it up the whole time we were in a relationship, this was no big deal to me). I met some of his family and his brother was married to a lady who was not Muslim from birth, but I can't remember whether she had formally converted or not. I know that his parents were not keen on this match, I'm not sure how much of that was down to religion though.

I am the same with other religious friends. I want to ask fundamental questions like - why do you believe? Why do you need to believe? Do you think organised religion is problematic? Do you think there is anything problematic about your specific religion? If there was a God/celestial being would they really allow such pain in the world? Do you think church and state should be separate? Do you think it's right that the house of lords has Bishops? Do you think the Catholic church is/was damaging to women etc .. it's not just about Islam it's about religion in its entirety. You know what they say. Never talk about religion. I think that can cause barriers in friendships and relationships...

My neighbours are a Muslim man / white British woman pairing. They seem very secular here in London but I've seen pictures on social media from when they spend extended periods in his home country and when they are there, they are both much more observant (she wears a full hijab etc). I was quite surprised to see this.

From a non muslim perspective - I don’t think I’d find your restrictions bad as a non Muslim but long term I’d have some expectations that we would celebrate Christian festivals (culturally at least) e.g having a Christmas tree, having Christmas dinner etc, same at Easter. I would also want to feel the family and community stuff was temporary whilst we worked out our future rather than a permenant issue. Long term I’d want to move to a different area and live somewhere multicultural where we would both be accepted.

Muslims aren't one size fits all, firstly. And they don't all follow the Qu'ran and hadith to the letter as you know.
A Lebanese (Muslim) woman I knew was married to a non-Muslim. He converted for her. She was devout. Lebanese family accepting. His Christian family not so much.
A Bosnian Muslim woman married a non-Muslim man. She was practicing. He did not convert. Family not an issue.
I, was raised as a Muslim. I do not practice. My husband would have converted for me if I was. We didn't work out but it had nothing to do with religion.
Last I checked being a Muslim was based on submission and following all the pillars where possible. Doesn't mean you are not a Muslim if you don't.

Feel free to PM me @Jewel1968 happy to answer your qs hahaha but your questions are very subjective

Depends on the expectations from each family. I dated a Muslim guy in my 20s. It fizzled out very quickly. one factor was that he told me he had a white british girlfriend all though university. She never me his parents and they split us as tbey could never marry.

So I’m not a takfiri person so would never declare someone a non Muslim and I don’t want this to be taken as such just want to say that first bad foremost but you’re right islam literally means submission, you follow all pillars, the only exception is if it poses a risk to your life.

now are you a non Muslim if you marry a non Muslim man, I’m sure scholars would be divided on this, but I think the most common view is the woman would still be Muslim, however the marriage would be considered illegitimate.

but I imagine it has a lot today with how practicing the overall family are because its quite well known that it’s not permissible, but if neither party are practicing then it’s not really a big deal is it

I married a Muslim. It helped that his family were very supportive and didn't oppose it at all. But what helps the most is that actually our similarities outweigh our differences. So we both grew up in the same town, same friendship group, families same class, same attitude to education, similar attitude to politics etc.

This leaves a smaller list of things to have to compromise over. So he's happy to celebrate Xmas and I haven't got a problem with his parents giving my kids money at Eid! I don't feed him pork but as I'm chief chef in the house I occasionally cook it for me and the kids and he's ok with that.

I think if it gets serious you should discuss children and how you would bring them up. Muslim? His religion? Neither? Circumcision was a big no no for me but others would feel differently.

NC for this.

I’m a Muslim. My husband wasn’t when we were dating and he only converted so we can get married. My family accept him and love him a lot more than his family do me!

When we were dating, it wasn’t easy all the time as I had to keep him secret from my family until I was sure I wanted to marry him. He never understood that. It therefore involved me lying to family a lot and I absolutely hated that. It was all worth it in the end but I still have the guilt around my family being clueless about half of our relationship. I definitely stepped out of my comfort zone for him by going away on holidays and lying to my family about who I was with. I felt I needed to do that because I was with a non-Muslim / white guy who didn’t fully understand the culture and religion, and so I had to do as much as I could to make it a relationship he wanted. All of that is was the biggest difficulty.

Things like no pork / bacon, avoiding areas where we might get spotted, etc etc were easy.

Circumcision was a big no no for me but others would feel differently

Topics like this you need to consider and think about what matters to you. We have a son, and I wanted to him circumcised. DH has absolutely refused. He researched it, realised circumcision is sunnah rather than obligatory, and uses that as his justification for saying no, when really it’s based on his view of circumcision being abuse.

He needs to run, a mile.