Lucy Letby Court Case

[Pebble21uk]

Today has been the first day of the trial, which is expected to last for six months. One thread has already been pulled on the subject. Upon deletion MNHQ said that a thread about the case is fine but please read the rules around contempt of court before posting... these are copied and pasted here:
Publicly commenting on a court case:

You might be in contempt of court if you speak publicly or post on social media.
For example, you should not:
say whether you think a person is guilty or innocent
refer to someone’s previous convictions
name someone the judge has allowed to be anonymous, even if you did not know this
name victims, witnesses and offenders under 18
name sex crime victims
share any evidence or facts about a case that the judge has said cannot be made public

If any of the above take place then new threads will also be pulled. Let's please try and keep it going!

But yet still seemingly gaily able to go to work and carry on as normal?

Myers KC is rattling through these... their opening statement will be incredibly short compared to the prosecutions. I think he mentioned a couple of hours (as apposed to a couple of days)

Exactly. It’s horrific but not exactly unheard of.

I was always surprised that the parents of Otto Warmbier (who died after being 'handed back' by North Korea in a vegetative state - having been sentenced to over 30 years hard labour there) declined a post mortem

Definitely a very different circumstance, but it doesn't surprise me. We all know how Otto Warmbier died, we know who (in general) was responsible if not who specifically, and we're not exactly going to issue criminal proceedings against North Korean prison guards, so why torture yourself with the painful detail of how he suffered? The balance is different in this circumstance, and I think it's a very difficult decision for bereaved parents, but I can certainly see how in the moment they would feel that a PM won't change anything that matters and their tiny babies' bodies have suffered enough.

The IV bag, which was allegedly spiked with insulin, was changed when Letby was not on shift. The sample that was analysed was taken from this bag, which Letby had not come into contact with, Mr Myers says

This is as significant a fact for the Defence as the written "I did it" notes are for the Prosecution.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz Thanks for the clarification re photos. Absolutely.

@MrsFionaCharming I completely understand that. It must be quite tortuous as well though if suggestions or accusations are made after the event to which there are no answers and you are no longer able to change your mind.

@AquaticSewingMachine I don't want to derail, but having read around that case, the strongest theory is now that he took his own life in response to the sentence handed to him. I understand though that the NK regime is still absolutely to blame for that.

@Pebble21uk ah I see; my base assumption was that he was beaten in custody (which he may well have been anyway), but I don't think that changes the (lack of) utility of a PM anyway; we have no way of holding any North Korean civilly or criminally responsible. Anyway, detail ended.

No dates have been given for any of the notes/post-its

LL was moved off the unit a week after the last episode with baby Q and was subsequently investigated by RCN FTP and suspended from work

The notes were found nearly 2 years later when she was arrested & her home searched

Particularly before LL, since it may be the case, arguably, that following an investigation into her, Countess of Chester has changed their processes and improved standards and other staff/new staff have been brought in and worked better than average and so this wouldn't be representative. It's the period before LL was hired that will be of particular interest, and potentially immediately after her suspension. And of course data from other NHS Trusts, there is no good reason for statistically significantly higher number of babies in Chester to suddenly fall dramatically ill and not respond to treatment in that one particular year, if that's what the numbers show. That's of course just one puzzle of it all.

I am also positive that years ago I read she worked at Liverpool Women's Hospital before joining Countess, does anyone recall this?

Sorry, quoting didn't work - I meant that in response to those of you who were mentioning comparing the relevant statistics regarding neonatal deaths/poor outcomes at the CoC and the periods of time for comparison.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-63238989 mention the consultants becoming suspicious and the move from care to "clerical duties"

@PurplePansy05 yes, but that was for the specialist training

I'm.not sure those post it notes prove anything to me as a lay person it looks like s jumble of thoughts, she's written down ,considering the enormity of what shes Bern accused of she could be trying to get her thoughts in order.

I can't read the reporting on the court case as the crimes are just so heartbreaking.
Why ?
Why ?
Why ?
💙💙💙

Defence discussed the prosecution’s allegation that the babies recovered and thrived once out of LL’s care. They argue that it wasn’t being removed from LL’s care that caused the improvements, but being out of the hospital’s care in general. They paint the hospital as being suboptimal and when children were moved to other hospitals they received better care and so had better outcomes.

The picture of the post it note looks like a stream of consciousness to me. As you would imagine, the prosecution only gave part of the wording. Her full sentence was 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough' which gives a different perspective on things.

Judge has released the confession note

It's certainly rambling but ramblings on what or from where I won't speculate. Either side could use that note in their arguments.

Just saw the note has been released. I cannot read. It’s just a jumble of thoughts. It reads as though she was very anxious and panicky writing it.

The most mind-blowing aspect of this case in my opinion is that the hospital suspected someone was harming/murdering babies, and went on to change the same someone’s shifts instead of removing someone from duties completely. What kind of safeguarding is this? Also, after they raised suspicion, the hospital had several opportunities to get hard evidence, perform autopsies on the new cases, but no. They decide to rely on someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time to make their case.

Typical NHS: completely passive, not proactive at all, and relying on statistics for everything.

Which you’d expect if being investigated for murder, irrespective of guilt or innocence. I wonder when it was written?

It doesn’t really though does it? “I killed them on purpose “ doesn’t really have much scope for alternative explanations

I wonder what she said in her police interviews. I expect it will come out

But that's not the full sentence. The full sentence is 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough' which suggests to me that she thinks it's her own failings as a nurse which killed them.
I may be wrong, I have a completely open mind

There is a Freedom of Information request on whatdotheyknow.com (Neonatal deaths and FOIs) from 2018 which provides detailed infant death stats for Countess Chester Hospital from 2013-2018.