Do you know what a grammar school is?

[chestonher]

Seems a silly question but here me out

DH didn't know. Not really, some vague idea but that was it.

My SIL didn't have a clue, I asked her out of interest in passing about any local ones. She said 'what's that? ' a friend of hers was there at the time and agreed she didn't know either that such a thing existed - that you could take a test to her into a school you don't pay for with fees.

None of them knew what the 11+ is.

So that's 3 people.

They are all from and live in Bedfordshire. I am from somewhere else in the South East - and where I'm from, if you're bright, you take the 11+.

These aren't people without anything about them either, my H has a professional job. The other two people are fairly well paid

Where I'm from, there are religious schools and then state schools. In general, the poor children go to the state schools and the brighter ones or ones with pushy parents go to the religious schools.

I always wanted to be jumping on the shed though. 😆

Macbeth was never as fun as jumping on a shed might be!

The religious schools are funded by the state though too.

On reflection, I suppose that we do have streaming where I'm from.

Yes I think they do.

I know what grammar schools are. Fortunately they were abolished in the area where I live in the 70s.

You're relentless aren't you? 🤣

Another NI one here.

We might have loads of grammars, but we don’t have private schools in the same way the rest of the U.K. does.

So if you’re from a low income family living on a council estate (like my dad was), as long as you pass the test you would end up getting the same education as the kids whose parents where in other parts of the U.K. would be sending their kids to an independent school.

Historically, grammar schools were very good for those who got into them, but less so for those who didn't, because secondary moderns were definitely looked down on. That's also partly why GCSEs were brought in, rather than the O-level/CSE split.

How successful all that has been overall, in reducing inequalities, is very much up for debate, but I should have thought in areas that went comprehensive, the expense and admin overhead involved in reintroducing grammars would mean there would be many in favour of it, whatever Liz Truss may think. Not everyone can be or wants to be academic, and there should be more focus on ensuring everyone gets a good education for themselves, which isn't seen as lesser. I don't think any government has achieved that so far, mind you.

SW Hertfordshire has a consortium of about 7 ish schools that require you to take the 11 plus to get in or you can get in via the sinking rule … it’s very competitive and people tutor their children from a very young age - the girls and boys grammar schools are part of the consortium

😊

Yes, but I was bought up in an 11 plus area where I still live, and DP went to one and currently DS attends one.

I suggest you look at the admission criteria for the school you are interested in. If it's done by score your DD may get in if she gets high enough. Or the catchment area may go out far enough to where you live.

In my part of London it is not unusual for children to travel 30-60 mins by public transport to get to their secondary school. Not just grammars, but religious or single sex schools make the longer journey worthwhile for some families.

@mewkins I think it's pretty much just parts of Bedfordshire and Dorset that still has First, Middle, Upper schools - they've either been phased out or are being phased out.
I find it interesting that the 3 tier age groupings is similar to the pre-prep, prep, public school ages in the private system.
Public School traditionally starts at Year 9 (age 13) the same as the 3 tier 'Upper' schools.
I have always wondered why the 3 tier system didn't last and schools were changed back to Primary/Secondary.

I thought I did until 1) BIL said he went to private school, turns out his parents paid small fees for his grammar school and 2) I moved to Guildford and RGS is a sought after private school apparently 😵‍💫😵‍💫

@Needmorelego lots of first/middle/upper in deepest Somerset too, I loved it and makes much more sense to me personally!

And in bits of Hampshire too I think. Used to be some over in East Herts but I think it has now been phased out there

I thought they'd been left behind in the 60s & 70s. If they weren't, they should have been.

I'd you're bright...

I would say more a strong all rounder..

You could have the next Albert Einstein who can't get in because his English is not strong or the next Shakespeare's who can't get in because his maths is not strong.

The fact they don't know what one is shows nothing.

Do they have children? Are they private? Is Grammer an option there?

Do they care?

W bear, I've never known a school fail because of the way it's looked at

Im from Scotland originally, I've heard of grammar school but didn't really know what it was to be honest.
Schooling in the area I grew up was two tier - primary then secondary. Every secondary school was called Something Academy so don't think that necessarily means not well rated by Ofsted as pp said.

It is where the poorer (relatively) middle classes who can’t afford private send there children - it’s a bun fight locally with hot housing from year 4. Some kids can get really stressed - terrified there life is over if they go to the local academy (which is not called that but anyway is rated excellent by ofsted and has above average results) - and parents terrified there child will die at the academy. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s snobbery combined with racism - the wrong type of foreigners are at the academy. The one sensible person I know whose kid has gone didn’t do tutoring and just sent him to try as he likes school work.

We live in wales, but near enough to England that 2 grammar schools put buses on for pupils go to the grammars in England. 45 mins away.

My Dd goes to girls grammar and DS sat 11+ yesterday for boys school.

Grammars outperform local welsh schools plus in wales gcse welsh is compulsory even if you don't want to take it which is ridiculous. So hoping DS passes. Dd is doing well at grammar.

Although they're not the magic pill of perfection. There are some stuff at the grammar that doesn't suit Dd though not enough to make me move her. We all soon got used to early starts for bus quite quickly.

Of course I do it was in reply to somebody saying that they should be on everyone, s radar ,like they are common place ,outside if the little mumsnet bubble they are really not.

Our grammar say it's the nearest you get to private education without paying for it. Though bus costs £150 per month!!!

Having read your comment properly I'm also aware that public schools and Grammar schools are not the same thing.

@chestonher I had guessed you would say Essex. Where I am there are 4 grammar schools (single sex so 2 boys 2 girls) and 2 catholic senior schools (again single sex) that you stand a better chance of getting in if you take the 11plus. And that’s just in our LA.