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Original poster

Do you know what a grammar school is?

185 replies

chestonher · 21/09/2022 11:09

Seems a silly question but here me out

DH didn't know. Not really, some vague idea but that was it.

My SIL didn't have a clue, I asked her out of interest in passing about any local ones. She said 'what's that? Confused' a friend of hers was there at the time and agreed she didn't know either that such a thing existed - that you could take a test to her into a school you don't pay for with fees.

None of them knew what the 11+ is.

So that's 3 people.

They are all from and live in Bedfordshire. I am from somewhere else in the South East - and where I'm from, if you're bright, you take the 11+.

These aren't people without anything about them either, my H has a professional job. The other two people are fairly well paid

OP posts:
WildfellAnne · 21/09/2022 11:24

I do know what they are, but I’ve never lived anywhere where there are any - children would have to take a train out. Some do. I know people who attended them as children, and felt damaged by them, though. Also, children don’t seem to do as well at them as I’d expect.

Cheeselog · 21/09/2022 11:25

Until I went to university I didn’t know they still existed in the UK. I didn’t live in an area that had them, most places don’t. I read about the 11+ in a Jacqueline Wilson book and assumed it was something historical that didn’t happen anymore, like rationing.

Helgadaley · 21/09/2022 11:25

Chocolatepringles · 21/09/2022 11:15

My husband went to one. Before I met him I had vaguely heard of them but didn't know what they were. I still don't. Do they still exist?

Yes, many grammar schools exist. I went to a girls' grammar school in the north as I passed my 11+. But I am nearby 70 now, so a long time ago and the school went comprehensive soon after I left.

The 11+ was a deeply unsatisfactory exam which wrote off many children at age 11, condemning them to a 'secondary modern' school, where they couldn't gain any meaningful qualifications. There were only a few fully inclusive comprehensive schools.

Fortunately the system lasted for less than 30 years but I 'm sure lots of children were failed.
Today's grammars are academically highly selective, but at least if a child doesn't get in, there are excellent comprehensive schools available.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
PuttingDownRoots · 21/09/2022 11:25

I went to Gramnar school in SE London.

My friends and family find the local system where I live of Secondary school only going to 16 strange... I had reassure them that the local college does 'proper' academic A levels!

SpinningFloppa · 21/09/2022 11:26

Yes they still exist my nephew just left his it in is Kent we SE London border.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 21/09/2022 11:27

Yes, I went to one. It was the 80s in NI, if you passed your 11 plus you went to the Grammar, if you failed you went to the Intermediate school. I loved it, the facilities were amazing, like a public school really. We had extensive grounds and sports facilities, wonderful, dedicated teachers, an Art department, language lab, fully equipped stage etc. We even learned Latin. I got a fabulous education for free, my single parent mum made sure I appreciated it! I'm a huge fan, it really set me up for life.

LIZS · 21/09/2022 11:28

State Grammar schools were largely abolished in 1970s. Some LA retained them, some went independent with Assisted Places funding.

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 21/09/2022 11:28

This confusion is further contributed to by the fact that in some non-Grammar areas there are independent/private schools with Grammar School in their name, because up till 1979 there was a "direct grant" system where grammar schools could have two parallel admissions tracks, onecfor kids who would be paid for privately and one for thise whose fees would be paid by the government. Same 11+ exam for both but different pass marks. My dad went to one such as a government-paid pupil. In 1979 the system was abolished and some became fully state schools and others fully independent. The independent ones still have an 11+ style entrance test but it's not the same 11+ as fir state grammars.

Needmorelego · 21/09/2022 11:29

@chestonher or some secondary schools are even called 'college' despite being for age 11 upwards.
And looks at all the 6th Form vs College threads every year and some people point out that in some parts of England there are no 6th Forms so the only choice is college.
Add in the UTC's and Studio Schools for more confusion.
England has a very disjointed education system.

Original poster
chestonher · 21/09/2022 11:30

Needmorelego · 21/09/2022 11:24

@chestonher High School/Senior School/Secondary School means all the same thing surely?
To be honest most (secondary) schools these days are called Something Academy.

Where I'm from, Academy in the same means the school is really bad!

I'm from an area in Essex where the very very clever and pushed go to Grammar, then if you have any sense you'll send your child to the Catholic schools as they are the best in terms of children behaving themselves there and better results. Most the kids in them aren't Catholic.

Then there are the Academy schools, of which are 'needing improvement' in every area at every OFSTED report

OP posts:
Badbadbunny · 21/09/2022 11:31

Depends on the area. Lots of areas simply don't have any at all. Lots of areas have just 1 or 2 in the entire county. Some counties have grammars in every town.

It's not surprising that someone doesn't know about grammars if they're in an area without one.

But it is surprising if they're in a county where everyone takes the 11+ and there are lots of grammars!

Needmorelego · 21/09/2022 11:32

@chestonher Grammar Schools can be Academies too.
Catholic Schools can be Academies too.
The government wants all schools to be Academies eventually.

SweetsAndChocolates · 21/09/2022 11:32

I grew up in a city that didn't have grammar schools, a few private ones.
However, people tried to get their children into the grammars in Birmingham (lots of competition), so a lot moved for the schools. It would have meant travelling 35/40 miles if schools weren't so oversubscribed.

I knew about them, didn't have any experience of 11+.
I'm in the north west now, and DS attends a grammar.

PuttingDownRoots · 21/09/2022 11:34

On the name front... the Boarding School my mother attended in the 60s/70s has Academy in the name!

Lots of Private schools seem to High in the name.

(And locally, the Catholic school has the worst reputation....)

busybanana · 21/09/2022 11:34

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 21/09/2022 11:28

This confusion is further contributed to by the fact that in some non-Grammar areas there are independent/private schools with Grammar School in their name, because up till 1979 there was a "direct grant" system where grammar schools could have two parallel admissions tracks, onecfor kids who would be paid for privately and one for thise whose fees would be paid by the government. Same 11+ exam for both but different pass marks. My dad went to one such as a government-paid pupil. In 1979 the system was abolished and some became fully state schools and others fully independent. The independent ones still have an 11+ style entrance test but it's not the same 11+ as fir state grammars.

Yes, there's a private school near here with 'Grammar' in the name. It confused me when we first moved here because I'd never heard of a fee-paying grammar.

Mooserp · 21/09/2022 11:35

I do because I went to one, as did my parents and siblings.

When I went we did the 12+ tests at primary school. It wasn't something you chose to do or knew when it was happening. After that you were told which school you were going to.

I'm not clued up on how it all works these days.

washingbasketqueen · 21/09/2022 11:36

I went to one and where I'm from (NI) they are very common. They make up about a third of all post primaries here. Every dc in my dc's class is taking the equivalent to the 11+, but that differs according to primary school and area. My dc school does lots of prep for the exam.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 21/09/2022 11:38

chestonher · 21/09/2022 11:30

Where I'm from, Academy in the same means the school is really bad!

I'm from an area in Essex where the very very clever and pushed go to Grammar, then if you have any sense you'll send your child to the Catholic schools as they are the best in terms of children behaving themselves there and better results. Most the kids in them aren't Catholic.

Then there are the Academy schools, of which are 'needing improvement' in every area at every OFSTED report

Show quote history

Is that because a the teachers want to be teaching at the private schools rather than the academy?
Where I'm from we have an academy in town. That's it.

I'm getting a kind of sneering tone from your posting op.

Hoppinggreen · 21/09/2022 11:39

chestonher · 21/09/2022 11:16

Interesting.

My daughter is far too young yet! But does anyone know if you can take the 11+ and apply for grammar school if there isn't one in catchment?

Closest is 45/50 mins away

I don't even know if I'd encourage her to do it but wondered if it's at least an option?

Probably but you need to check with the school.
Some will use catchment as entry requirement so your child would need to score higher than a child living close to the school to get a place

SarahShorty · 21/09/2022 11:40

A grammar school is one of many types of state-funded secondary schools that selects pupils based on the results of the 11+ exam. I failed the 11+ and went to a shoddy secondary school where I met my DH who passed the 11+ and fobbed off grammar school he was offered in favour of the shoddy school closer to him at the time. We're both software engineers, so the 11+ is clearly not a measure of how bright a child is.

fairtrauchled · 21/09/2022 11:40

No grammar schools here in Scotland.
As a pp said some schools have grammar after the name but they are just the same as state comprehensive schools.
For what it's worth I do know what a grammar school is and the 11+

sheepdogdelight · 21/09/2022 11:42

Most of the secondary schools round here are just called <name> School. So if you didn't know the school you wouldn't know whether it was a secondary, primary, infants or junior school.

Actually every single secondary school round here is an academy. Unless you want to travel, you don't have a choice in that respect.

over2021 · 21/09/2022 11:42

Yes, I'm from Essex so grammars are a thing here.

Lots of local kids don't sit the 11+ anymore though so our local grammars are mostly occupied by kids from East London.

Original poster
chestonher · 21/09/2022 11:42

Does anyone know if a LA can set their own catchment?

For example, I've heard rumours that areas such as Harpenden have really good schools but you won't get in there unless you're extremely local, so naturally all the wealthy go there despite not being fee paying

OP posts:
okytdvhuoo · 21/09/2022 11:43

I have but only because I went to one (90s/00s). In the town I grew up in there weren’t any grammar schools. I only took the test because my mum saw a paper announcement about it for schools at the next big city to us and had taken the 11+ herself as a kid so had some meaning for her.

So yeah think lots of the country just don’t have grammars in their local system - just not on the radar.