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Original poster

Is tutoring for the 11+ really essential?

99 replies

TheUsualChaos · 20/09/2022 13:49

We are starting to think about secondary schools for DD. Options are local college (average school, very big but most people say it's alright) or choice of two grammar schools in nearest town. This would involve a bus or train commute but apparently lots of kids go there from where we live. We are going to look at them all soon to see what DD thinks.

Everyone I've spoken to says if your child is going to take the 11+ they will need tutoring starting from around now to stand any chance come next September. Is this really true??

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 20/09/2022 13:52

Each area is different and each exam is different so it does depend what 11+ area you are in.

There is a very good 11+forum which has each area have it own forum which would be a good place to start

parietal · 20/09/2022 13:52

your child needs at least some practice with doing the exams - being familiar with the format and style of questions and how quick they go etc. you could do that at home but a tutor might be easier.

my girls both did 1x week for 5 months before 11+ and that was enough to pass.

Shaftedd · 20/09/2022 13:55

Usually, I went to grammar school in the Midlands and almost all the kids were tutored to get in. The tiny handful who weren't were the kids who were profoundly gifted but happened to come from deprived homes. It is eons cheaper to get tuition for the 11+ and then not have to pay for private school and/or lots of extra tuition at secondary. Also, you aren't stuck with the "what if" if you don't get your child tuition and then they don't get in. If they get tuition and get in, fantastic. If they get tuition and they don't get in, then at least you've done your best.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

11+ Exam General education Secondary education Tutoring
Original poster
TheUsualChaos · 20/09/2022 21:08

Thanks you. Yes, I think that was more my thinking - doing some tutoring closer to the time if we go down that road but start on some of the practice materials soon. A while year of tutoring seems a bit mad!

OP posts:
Original poster
TheUsualChaos · 20/09/2022 21:09

*whole year

OP posts:
5zeds · 20/09/2022 21:10

No utterly unnecessary. Get some past papers and explain what happens on the day.

FrecklesMalone · 20/09/2022 21:12

You can tutor them yourself. Get some 11 plus practice books and exam papers. Worked for our kids who are clever but by no means super clever.

Hosum · 20/09/2022 21:19

Same we used atom - no extra tutor - DD largely did it herself.

Original poster
TheUsualChaos · 20/09/2022 21:54

That's interesting. This is what we initially thought we would do, get a load of practive materials and work through it all with her ourselves. DH is an ex teacher anyway so he gets all the theory, particularly all the English grammar jargon and how it all works and I did most of the homeschooling with her during lockdown and we worked pretty well together. Everyone I've spoken to though has said if you don't do months of professional tutoring they stand no chance of scoring high enough! Does make me wonder if some DC need that much tutoring to pass then is it even the right thing to do? 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
MrsAppleHead · 20/09/2022 22:01

We started tutoring in July,so late to the party (not quite 11+ but similar exam). From what I can glean the issue is it contains things that kids just won't have seen eg the non verbal reasoning. This is why I wanted my child to be tutored as I didn't want them to have a shock. Some of the examples given in things like English also bear no resemblance to some of the work they will have done in your standard state primary.

To me it feels like the 11+ hasn't moved on with curriculums which makes it somewhat irrelevant compared to say SATS but it's held up as this benchmark. One of our weird British quirks?

PaperTyger · 20/09/2022 22:06

Op the problem is sometimes the maths needed to pass isn't taught by the time of the 11+.
So you need a professional who knows what is needed.
Personally I would recommend some nearer the time for polishing.
You will get a sense of where DC are with books and self testing.

SillyFood · 20/09/2022 22:10

The maths needed to pass (where I am in Devon at least) is mostly year 8 stuff although it only amounted to around 30% of overall marks. Some of the English stuff is tricky to tutor and just getting your child to read loads is just as useful as it’s vocab stuff. My exdh did a couple of hours every weekend for about 3 months, ds had his exam last Saturday and came out feeling confident. No idea if it was a success yet or not though. Loads of his classmates have had tutors for years and there were a lot more prep school kids applying for the school than in previous years so we’ll just have to wait and see.

SillyFood · 20/09/2022 22:10

Non verbal reasoning definitely needs tutoring. I do t think I’m a complete idiot but I struggled with some of them.

badbaduncle · 20/09/2022 22:13

We did not get our kids tutored but we did show them what was involved and did a bit of practise. I think with no previous sight of the type of questions asked they'd be at a huge, very unfair disadvantage no matter how bright. I am very skeptical of how much difference the classroom style tutors make though. The ones in Halifax seem to have very low pass rates and be very hit and miss. 1:1 tuition seems much better and this is what we emulated at home with great results.

modgepodge · 20/09/2022 22:15

It depends. In Buckinghamshire, there’s a pass mark and scoring much higher than the pass mark is unnecessary, it won’t help you. If you pass it then comes down to distance/catchment. In this area, a bright child will pass with a bit of prep at home. But in other areas, children are ranked based on score, with the highest scores getting in. Here, clearly tutoring is beneficial.

I’ve never seen any y8 maths on any 11+ paper in this area (berks/bucks). A bit of y6 maths, yes, which is unfair as they take it at the start of y6, but most of it is y5 and below. A bright y5 would cope without much tuition.

VR and NVR will need some tuition, either at home or with a tutor, as it won’t be taught in (state) school.

illiterato · 20/09/2022 22:17

Does make me wonder if some DC need that much tutoring to pass then is it even the right thing to do?

the problem is that in many areas it’s not enough to just pass as far more children will
pass than there are places. Some of the top grammars only take the top few percent of passers, so you have to absolutely ace it, whereas where I live ( Dorset), passing and living in catchment is likely to be enough- scraping it may not be though depending on the year.

arethereanyleftatall · 20/09/2022 22:20

Depends ENTIRELY where you live. It's an area specific competition. Depends how many kids are competing. Area with loads of grammar schools - no tuition necessary. Area with only one and thousands of kids wanting to get in - absolutely necessary.

dizzydizzydizzy · 20/09/2022 22:23

If you are keen to get into grammar school yes. I tutored DD (no experience) and she still failed the 11+. She should have passed with flying colours - she got 4x Astar in her A Levels and similar in her GCSEs.

dizzydizzydizzy · 20/09/2022 22:23

She went to a comp and did very well.

Howmanysleepsnow · 20/09/2022 22:26

My understanding is that NVR is basically a test of intelligence, whereas maths and English test learning/ knowledge and ability to apply both. Tutoring will help more with the maths and English, NVR has less scope for improvement (though technique can be improved as with anything).
NVR is very similar to Mensa IQ tests.

Drywhitefruitycidergin · 20/09/2022 22:27

As per PP's depends where you live. My dd only decided at beginning of May to try, just had books at home and I booked a couple of test centre practise tests.
She broke her arm and did nothing for about 6 weeks.
In the end she was 2 marks short to give us choice of 2 GS's but without doubt she didn't need a tutor.
I would say she is above average but not naturally super bright - her maths improved enormously just doing the quizzes.

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 20/09/2022 22:29

Yes I think it depends on where you live. DS passed with no tutoring just practise with me but we live in the North West and if he passed you the test, he got a place as we were in catchment.

Bibbetybobbity · 20/09/2022 22:31

What you’re doing is basically tutoring- you’re just doing it yourself. Ppl who tutor are outsourcing. Neither one is better than the other, it depends on the child, the parents (their patience levels and knowledge of the test) and what everyone can manage. But you’re still doing prep- your DC isn’t going in cold. So just do what works for you, but no need to look down in anyone who tutors.

TiaraBoo · 20/09/2022 22:32

They need to know what’s going to be in the papers, how to answer it and enough practice to get the speed to get through the paper.

So even if you tutor them yourself, it’s good to start far enough in advance to practice.

Agree, some over tutored kids will get places and may not cope. But if you don’t give your DC some type of assistance (by you or a tutor) then they definitely won’t pass. Same with any exam, you need to prepare for it.

purplepaintedpineapple · 20/09/2022 22:47

I think it depends where you live; in my area, only one girls/ one boys with a large catchment so difficult to get in to - my son had fairly low level tutoring for a year to pass and it's only 2-3% get in. Versus somewhere like Kent where I believe there are more grammar schools and a higher percentage get in, so probably the scores needed would be slightly lower.