Is tutoring for the 11+ really essential?

[TheUsualChaos]

We are starting to think about secondary schools for DD. Options are local college (average school, very big but most people say it's alright) or choice of two grammar schools in nearest town. This would involve a bus or train commute but apparently lots of kids go there from where we live. We are going to look at them all soon to see what DD thinks.

Everyone I've spoken to says if your child is going to take the 11+ they will need tutoring starting from around now to stand any chance come next September. Is this really true??

Not looking down on paying for tutoring at all. More just questioning the time scale of it as I was shocked at people at work telling me we should get a tutor already. Think it's quite competitive here (highest scores get places) so maybe that explains it.

DC1 has just started at a selective grammar. They were tutored from Oct to August for the exam in Sept, once per week. It helped as they hadn't covered a lot of the maths at school, they were a bit behind due to Covid and I would have been clueless about where to start with the NVR. It wasn't particularly intensive and they didn't do much extra work outside of the lesson until a few weeks before.

If I had the time/patience/inclination I could probably coach DC2 myself, now that I've been through it once, but I don't.

In central London the competition is fierce and probably the worst place in the country to sit the 11+. Absolutely no hope without preparation, either through tutoring or doing it yourself. Even children in private prep, 99% will be coached/tutored through 2-3 rounds of assessments and interviews.

DD got in without a tutor. We did however get her practice books and she did those for a few months plus some practice papers the summer before the tests. We helped her with the occasional thing she struggled with (as they test eg some maths they won't have done at primary school before the test). She was only one of two in her Y7 class who didn't have a paid tutor but has done brilliantly at the school. Our reasoning was that we didn't want her tutored to get in then struggle the whole time or be bottom of the class, whereas if she got in without a tutor we knew that would mean she would be at least average in the class. In fact she's done much better than average. But then we had a decent comp locally so knew she had a good alternative if she didn't get in. If the alternatives had been awful, we might have made a different decision.

The problem with leaving it to get a tutor until a few months before the exam is that many take on all their students now for the year (once last year's students take their 11+ and no longer need their tutor's services). By the time late spring/early summer rolls around it will be very difficult to find one with space.

We were really uncomfortable with the idea of tutoring, didn't want to put the pressure on our children, or have the stress. Two qualified for grammar, one didn't (by a long way). The one at a comprehensive just got all 8's at GCSE, so comparable to grammar results. Maybe they would have qualified with tutoring, but it would have also been a very painful process as they really didn't want to work on it!
The one with the highest 11+ score just did the odd practice paper in the few months before the test 'for fun'. The other one wasn't keen on practicing so did about 2 papers beforehand.

I used a tutor for my eldest but all she did was go through past papers, there was no teaching at all. So I ended up having to do quite a lot myself in the end as she hadn't covered the full maths syllabus etc.

Second time around with my youngest I didn't use a tutor and just got them to do past papers and supplemented with a bit of "teaching" out of 11+ workbooks. We haven't got the results yet but I feel that my youngest was much better prepared for the exam than my eldest.

So I suppose my answer would be that it depends on the tutor. But you can't always tell before you use them if they're any good. This one came highly recommended locally which I find odd as anyone can run through past papers with child if you have the answers!

We did not pay for tutoring for my DS but I did buy a couple of the practice books (10-minute tests) so that he could get an idea of what sort of questions would come up. The area we're in also provided a few sample questions set out as the actual exam paper would be, and we talked to him about things like using his time effectively in the exam, exam technique etc so I suppose that's tutoring of a sort. For the school he wanted to go to he needed to get the pass mark only, as he met other criteria to be offered a place. He passed comfortably having done a 10-minute test at weekends for a few months before the exam. All of his friends had private tutors, not all of them passed the exam. 11+ tutoring is pretty big business locally but it's not spoken about much by the parents

My ds just sat his 11+ having done circa 3 x 20 mins at home with me with some WH Smith books. We did 1 x mock test.

The very first go at nvr timed 10 min test he scored 92% so I decided not to tutor. I think it was a mistake. I don't think he'll get the score he needs to get in, but equally I wasn't prepared to put extra stress on him and financial stress on us.

I had to teach him algebra/ angles/ volumes, which he got fairly quickly but ime its the speed of answering that just needs practice practice practice plus study skills.

His friends at school all have tutors, 4 hours a week plus 1 hour of homework a day. We live in the most competitive county. It's absolutely insane.

You wouldn't be able to get a tutor "just before" around here. You could get practice exam places though. If going down the self study route make sure you also time the practices at home; DD came out of the 11+ saying content was easy but she just couldn't go fast enough.
Plenty around here get tutors from y4 and good ones have waiting lists, so competition is fierce.

@TheUsualChaos it depends which grammar school you're going for. If it's one of the middle-ranking grammars with a small catchment, then you might be able to get by with little or no tutoring. If it's a prestigious grammar like the one I went to, where 2000+ kids were sitting the exam for 120 places, then years of tuition or a really gifted kid will be necessary. I know people who tried to tutor their own kids or did no tuition for the prestigious local grammars, and none of those kids got in. It might be different for less sought after grammars

Mine went to a super selective and we just did a few papers before. I don’t think tutoring is necessary or sensible.

We are in Surrey with many grammar schools. But the sense I'm getting from other families is that no matter what, some tutoring (privately or from parents) is necessary because competition is fierce and some of the work they are tested on is work that they will not yet have covered at primary school.

I find this extremely frustrating because it does rather seem to negate the entire point of grammar schools - which was to level the playing field so that children who are academically very bright but who can't afford private school or don't live in areas with excellent schools can still benefit from a very high quality education. Instead, around here anyway, they're just filled with children who are smart but who also have highly engaged parents.

I am 90% certain that DS' BF should have been a candidate for grammar school. But there is no spare cash, his mum is a single mum (with zero input from the dad) to 3 children and as the oldest he is often also helping with the younger DC (even more so during Covid). He certainly wasn't getting formal or informal tutoring and I doubt his mother was in a position to even track and follow what to do. Luckily, in his case, our local state schools are excellent and he will do just fine. But it infuriates me.

DD is very likely to be a candidate for grammar school and I find I have extremely mixed feelings about sending her as a result.

It's a school year though, so not every week.
DD went for one year. Her tutor broke it down into 3x45 mins on each subject area. English, Maths, VR.
The maths element of the 11+ is quite difficult and may include areas not yet taught in primary. The English question is very structured and understanding how to answer it is really useful. VR is not taught so it does help to have some familiarity with it.
I don't know anyone who got in without any preparation at all, but I know quite a few who did past papers at home with their parents and that was enough.
Tutoring is helpful but won't get every student through.

You can do it yourself. Just buy the Bond books and work through them. They are really good

I think, as other have said, it really depends on where you live. We are North London/Herts and you would stand no chance chance round here without the insight of a very good tutor.

If it's a competitive area and you want to get into those schools, then yes I'd get some tutoring.

We had a a tutor for DD, £20 for 1hr per week small group class (mix of in person and online due to Covid) and we did some short tests at home in the summer holidays before. The tutor also did a mock exam with them.

I am pretty sure she would have passed with DH or I doing it at home but not got such a high mark. We had just come off the back of, theand then back into home learning for Covid and we just found it easier to outsource this chore. Having a set time meant we couldn't just endlessly put it off and we had no dramas or arguements with DD over it.

My daughter has an IQ of 138 - not something I've ever thought about or assessed but she was diagnosed with High Functioning Autism (Aspergers) this summer and her IQ came up in her assessments.

She really always has been an exceptionally gifted child however, she needed tutoring for her 11+ (sat this month) because the format, exam conditions, NVR (which she is very capable at but still needed explanations for) and VR are not taught at primary and they make up a large part of the exam.

I also think she benefitted from the routine and structure of tutoring once a week and it helped her to lead her own revision which she did.

We started tutoring at the beginning of year 5.

We live in a super selective area (only top dc are offered a place). For some reason people travel from 2 other counties to attend, journey times of over an hour.

If a dc wants to attend either of the grammars then yes, they need tutoring. As others have said, the curriculum they need to know isn't taught before the test date, non verbal reasoning takes practice and they need to know the exam technique.

The competition for a place is massive and your dc will be up against dc from private schools, some with 2 or 3 tutors with parents who are desperate to avoid secondary school private fees. They push, so unfortunately if your dc wants a place, you have to as well.

20 years ago I passed the 11+ to get into the grammar school. Only prep was some past papers and a guide. I allocated about 3 months to do it.

@Lemoncurd interesting about your dc who didn't pass the 11+ but did so well in his GCSEs. What was his attitude to learning like from Y7 on and did he 'peak' later? In other words, how did he do so well if he didn't pass the 11 +? Need some positive stories for my ds who failed it last year.

I know lots of kids in SW London who were tutored three times a week starting from year 2 or 3. This was to get into the super selective grammars or the very selective independents. I imagine some incredibly bright children get in without that much tutoring but it seems normal to tutor that much around here. None of the ones I know have seemed to struggle once in.

He always had amazing feedback throughout secondary school. Sounded like they saw him as someone who put his head down and got on with the work right from the start. No idea about peaking later, primary school said he was bright too but as he wasn't as sharp and quick to get things as his older sibling it was hard for us to know whether it was enough for grammar school or not.
Oddly the feedback for the top set, top of the class sibling at grammar school was nowhere near as glowing, they were even more hard working (also very quiet and reticent) but some of the staff obviously had much higher expectations! They struggled a lot more with their mental health unfortunately.

Hope things go well for your boy.

IQ has nothing to do with the ability to
pass the 11plus or any exam for that matter. Many kids, taking the 11plus, have been tutored intensely since they were tiny. They are taught techniques and how to pass the exam.