Is tutoring for the 11+ really essential?

[TheUsualChaos]

We are starting to think about secondary schools for DD. Options are local college (average school, very big but most people say it's alright) or choice of two grammar schools in nearest town. This would involve a bus or train commute but apparently lots of kids go there from where we live. We are going to look at them all soon to see what DD thinks.

Everyone I've spoken to says if your child is going to take the 11+ they will need tutoring starting from around now to stand any chance come next September. Is this really true??

Mine did 1 test paper in the run up to the exam, took it and passed and would've made it into one of the grammars round here. Ultimately she chose a comp, as she didn't like the vibe at the grammar schools. We did zero tutoring, it would not have worked in our case she would have rebelled. My youngest hasn't bothered even sitting the exam this year, she is bright but not super bright and the pressure would have ruined her.

It sounds so different from the 11 plus of years ago, I remember my DM buying a massive book of practice papers in WHSmith and doing them at home on the kitchen table. My DB and I both passed.

I am an 11+ tutor, and I would say that the answer to your question is both yes and no.

It does depend where you are.
11+ in Kent, for example, is set so that about 30% of the kids pass.
In Glos the schools are superselective, so only kids in the tope 10% get in, but many, many kids don't bother to take the exam.

London has a lot of kids going for each place (100?) but other places it is about 4 kids per place.

Fundamentally your child needs preparing for the exam, which you can do yourself, they do not need a tutor.

The exam also varies from area to area.

Many areas use the CEM exam. This is based on the school curriculum up to the end of year 6. So everything in it should be something they have done in school, but it does include a few things that they may not cover until year 6. How well they know these things may depend on the school.
As a general rule they need to know everything quickly without having to work it out. This particularly includes maths vocabulary.
eg, an 11+ question may say find two prime factors of 35.
The answer is 5 and 7. In order to know that they have to be confident with the words 'prime' and 'factors.' In school, those words may come with an explanation, but not in the 11+ exam, so they need to be confident with their maths vocab.

If you are in a CEM area, buy the CGP A4 sized practice books for maths, NVR and VR. (there are thousands of 10 minute pratcice books, these ones are different, make sure it says CEM and age 10-11) Work through these together and practise things that they get stuck on. Then do some practice papers
use these books

in response to pp
NVR is not taught in school
VR - that depends on the exam. In the CEM exam VR is basically English and vocabulary.
In other exams it is complex word play and codes etc.

The 11+ is designed to be very specific in what to test for and something like 25% or less of applicants will pass. Kids that fail it aren't deemed to be thick, they just don't have what the school is looking for.

My sons were tutored - only one passed - he probably would have anyway . Recommend CGP books and familiarisation with past papers . Whether or not you need a tutor will depend on whether your child will cooperate without one if you DIY …best to be aware though that a significant proportion of the competition will have been tutored .. I didn’t want my children to be disadvantaged up against those kids so stretched myself to afford it . Not all tutors are of the same quality though - we had experience of 2 that were vastly different

If a NVR paper is involved please get your child help beforehand, either a tutor, who will teach techniques for the different sorts of questions, or a good tuition guide which will give them practise.

I used to invigilate for 11 plus, and the range of kids we got was enormous, from the little local prep schools who told the children to turn up in full school uniform, the massively overtutored who were champing at the bit to get going and were very peeved at being made to do a small practice paper, the children who weren’t sure how to fill in their names or spell their surnames even , “You need to write your whole name, not Kerry b, and don’t forget your surname also begins with a capital letter” ) on the answer booklet and the poor kids who took one incredulous look at the NVR paper and almost burst into tears. And do check your child knows its date of birth…….

That's what I wonder. If they need tutoring just to get in then how will they manage the work once they are there. It will be a struggle I think

It isn't actually true that kids who are highly tutored will need help once there.
The question is whether those who are highly tutored actually needed it, or if they would have passed anyway.

Remember that if you can answer the question, and the child sitting next to you can answer the question, it really doesn't matter if one of you had loads of tutoring, they both can answer the question!

I am an 11+ tutor. I do one hour per week all through year 5. We work through the curriculum and do loads of practise. Some of my students really benefit from that because they are not being stretched at school, and they start to fly with the extra tutoring. Some are naturally very bright and honestly they would have passed with some general prep and exam practise.
A few are borderline and the tutoring may be the difference between pass and fail. But as the curriculum we cover is also the school curriculum, the tutoring solidifies their foundations and enables them to do better in school anyway.

I wonder how long do most people end up tutoring for? Is it through yr 5 or do people start even earlier?

It's also worth pointing out that getting through the over inflated exam standards in London is much harder than the work actually set in class once you're accepted and you're in year7. One or two may slip through the net but they will be massaged out of the school over the course of the first term.

I’ve known quite a few people who have started as early as year 3!

@SnoozyLucy7 So thats three years of tuition? Seriously, that seems mad

We started in year 5, I thought it was early but our lovely tutor told me off for starting late.

Ds1 scraped into his grammar, we were on another website and by crosschecking with other parents there, were pretty sure he got the last place and it came down to distance.* He was top or middle set all the way through.

*For other schools, same dc, he was ranked higher so we figured they had the same score.

Some great replies here thank you all 👍 definitely need to find out a bit more about exactly which exams they take here. I think it does include NVR.

Ultimately, we just want her to be happy at a school that encourages her to achieve her potential. She's a quiet but capable girl so I think sometimes gets a bit overlooked. I'm willing to start some 11+ practice so that it keeps that option open to her but if we go for the comp it's not like it will have done any harm to do a bit of extra work.

U tube had some good NVR on line!

The usual, exactly.
It's not going to harm at that level at all.

I do feel for dc in Saturday school for 3 hours two years before hand!

I think there is a balance, exam techniques are so important.
Some practice papers and as pp said , familiar with mathematics terms,not all schools will cover these terms.

Good spelling and vocabulary is a given.

Nvr exposure and practise.

They need tutoring to pass comfortably, but it can be tutoring by a parent. You don’t have to make them a maths genius. The most important thing is that they get familiar with the format of the questions and how to make sure the computer picks up all of their correct answers. Someone posted a picture of their Dd’s attempt at an 11+ paper where the computer scored the child 30% but 80% of the answers were correct, her DD just was marking stuff in the wrong place and with bad handwriting etc.

I agree. My ds said to me yesterday that he's really pleased he worked through the CEM books at home, even though we think it's highly unlikely he'll get a high enough score to get in (super selective area, his friends have done over 8 hours of tuition a week, I was not prepared to put him through that). He said he feels so much more confident at Maths in class now. He was already excelling but he feels his speed has improved.

I also don't think our most local grammar would be right for him, and I'd prefer a co-ed option. There's only 2 in the county, so he needs a higher than usual mark to get in to one of those. The system is totally broken ☹️

the CGP book that I linked to upthread is great for teaching NVR.
It breaks it down into different things to look for (shape, layer, rotation etc) and then gives you targetted practice, then at the end of the book there are 8 full assessment tests.

I really recommend it as a start, easy to work through as a kid and parent.

As someone else said, they do really need some tutoring, but that can be done by the parent quite easily.
My only caution is that if you are London the standard and satkes are much higher.

If you are looking at Gloucestershire schools, PM me and I'll give you more information about the exam etc.

Think our dc probably took the exam for the same school - Colyton?

my eldest is already there and I didn’t formally tutor her, but I did get her to work through the practise books for 30 mins most days of the summer holidays before the exam.
I did similar with my son - he came out feeling fairly happy but you never really know until you find out! Who knows - maybe I’ll be kicking myself for not tutoring in a months time!

@steppemum we are Gloucestershire, ds just sat the test at the Crypt. I regret not getting a tutor but not for the nvr bits, ds naturally got that straight away, but for the timing. Wish I had found you earlier 😆

It is worth checking for where you are.
This would not be true for many areas.
For the CEM test (which is used in GLOS for example) they say that it is material covered up to the end of year 6 only.
There is no point teaching anything beyond year 6. In fact when the National Curriculum changed a few years ago, CGP rewrote some of their books and removed the stuff which was no longer on the year 6 curriculum (probability, median and mode etc) although you will still find that stuff in the Bond books and other practice books.

Similarly, the VR varies enormously test to test. So most of the Bond VR books contain things that will not be in that CEM test. The VR in the CEM test is about vocabulary and comprehension.
A wide comprehensive vocabulary is very important for passing the 11+

It is also worth remembering that people use the term 11+ to apply to both state 11+ exams and also for the entrance exam to private schools which is also called the 11+ in many cases. The requirements will be different.

thanks.
I am always happy to take time to show parents which materials they can use and the things to focus on. I am a great believer that you can do this at home.

The thing is, the 11+ over the years has essentially become an 'arms race'.

If nobody did any tutoring, then there would be a level playing field at a certain level, and the absolute results would be lower but the children with the top marks would get in.

On the other hand, in highly competitive areas with few grammar schools, there is now a whole industry of private primary schools that devote time every week to specific teaching towards the 11+ test.

So parents from other schools tutor - themselves or via a paid-for tutor - to try to level the playing field in terms of familiarity, specific skills such as vocabulary, and most importantly speed.

This means that the private school parents are no longer getting the full advantage they feel they are paying for, so they tutor in addition to what the school provides.

Thus the need for tutoring of others increases. Tutors want a year-round income, so they typically recruit new tutees as soon as the previous year group has taken the exam. Many of the best tutors are selective, so there is also a sub-industry of 'pre tutors' who tutor for access to the best tutors....

IME, there is a much higher correlation between 'decent ability, diligent and very highly prepared' and success in highly selective 11+ exams than there is between 'genuinely high displayed ability in school' and such success. However, equally, many children who are tutored still do not get in.