Is lying in state a closed coffin?

[GreenGreenGrassBlue]

I’m from a country where all our funerals are open coffin so we follow that culture here too and bring the body home for family and friends to visit. I’m assuming it’s a closed coffin due to the number of days for the Queen?

Prince Phillip’s coffin was put in a vault to wait for the Queen to die. They will both be interred in a vault in a small annexe chapel at St George’s. There is just room for George VI and his Queen (already there) and the late Queen and Phillip. Princess Margaret was cremated and her ashes just fit in. We were told this a few weeks ago when we visited Windsor. The coffins are lead lined so presumably won’t smell. I am often concerned about what is shown on tv with bodies decaying. In our religion a body is never left alone and we sat with my DF for 24 hours after he died. He just looked as if he was asleep and there were no flies or smell.

I find some of the British attitudes to death and mourning expressed here very cold and removed from emotion.

In my culture many people like to die at home surrounded by family and then are waked in the house. My beloved grandfather died of cancer at home with palliative care given by a specialist team of doctors and nurses and most importantly, family.

He died in his own bed (which had been moved downstairs to the sitting room in his last months) and the undertakers came to the house and moved him into his coffin and removed the bed entirely from the room.

We sat with him in a vigil throughout that night and it was an honour and a privilege to have spent those final hours with him. We spoke to him and held his had and stroked his hair and kissed his face. Our raw grief subsided slightly and acceptance crept in. We never once left him unattended and we took turns to be in the room with him either in pairs or alone. I felt him get colder and colder.

My grief was private and personal for him - he had been a huge part of my life and I loved him fiercely. I will never ever regret having those quiet, sad, reflective middle of the night hours with him. The memory is precious to me.

He was hugely loved in his community and one of the most profound aspects for me was to witness a steady, quiet stream of friends and neighbours respectfully come to the room, touch his had or face and bow their heads. No words were needed. At 6am the next morning his very elderly neighbour came to the front door, walked silently into the front room where he was and she just walked up to him and held his hand for a couple of minutes. She had lived next door to him for over 60 years. it was a private moment of respect and leave-taking. she herself was dead within 6 months. The passing of an era.

It's been 20 years since he died now and I have tears flowing down my cheeks just remembering it all.

I have attended countless funerals with open coffins and there has never been 'gawping' but there has been a lot of respect and sorrow for the lost loved ones and those left behind.

Some of the comments on here are abhorrent to say the very least. Makes me incredibly glad not to have grown up with that aspect of British Culture

Thank you @Hmmph ❤️ and also to @GreenGreenGrassBlue for drawing out such an interesting sharing of customs around death.

To be fair, the abhorrent comments on here are not how all British or English people feel or representative of our culture. I hope you won't tar us all with the same brush. Many of us on the thread found them equally repugnant. I would have thought most nationalities have the odd unpleasant person don't they?

I should add, the experience I describe was in Scotland, a smidge outwith mainstream society.

I also recognise the 'men at the graveside, women at home' stories of Irish posters. This was so with my grandfather, in the early 90's, in a wee fishing village in the Highlands. Grandad was ben i hoose in the front room, which was only ever used if the doctor, minister or schoolmaster came calling, and folk wandered in and out to see him.

A common feature of more homely funerals in the north in winter is mishaps at the graveside because the grave has frozen solid with uneven sides which prevent the casket being lowered. I hear they jumped on Grandad to get him in!

I have also witnessed a joyful summer funeral where everyone dressed in bright colours and danced and picnicked at the graveside. Lots of children involved in that one.

There is far too much enforcing of a false homogenised 'Britishness' on diverse cultures and nations across these lands. As is grotesquely apparent at this very moment in history.

Thank you to you all who shared very deep and personal experiences. It is at times like this that I’m sure our late Queen would have wanted us to make these reflections on her death. She was (to me) anyway and what I’ve learned of her during the mourning coverage a deeply philosophical person.

This thread has really educated me on other British and Western cultures too. I do hope the Royal Family had time with her in an open casket at Balmoral.

There comes a point in life, where we have to accept the reality of death.

Thank you for answering my question OP.

it’s interesting what you say about accepting the reality of death. My aunt’s funeral is on Friday. The casket will be closed but my cousin, her daughter, asked if I wanted to see her body. I said no. I want to remember her as she was in life. I wondered if I was being a coward, in denial. Your views make me wonder again now.

@CornflowerBlue62 it is of course absolutely whatever you want to do. I guess it’s the reality of anything - some things we have to see. Others we don’t. At least seeing someone who has passed is most of the time your choice. I know in other countries/cultures death cannot be sanitised or closed away as it is sometimes here.

I’m Irish so have always seen the deceased at removals/wakes. The first one I remember is that of an aunt who died when I was 8, then grandparents when I was 11 and 14, then various neighbours, a schoolmate etc. These days, the funerals I’ve attended most recently have been those of family members of my friends.

When my father died a number of years ago we waked him at home. It was a huge comfort to bring him home and to have him start his journey to his grave from his own home. Seeing him dead in his coffin brought a sense of peace and closure, and I’m so very glad we did that. I had some time on my own with him, as we took it in turns stay with him throughout the night, and it was honestly a lovely time, just me and him. I got a chance to think/say an awful lot and process a lot. I lay my hand on his, stroked his face and kissed his forehead. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Someone asked about open coffins after a traumatic death- I’ve been at two funerals after road traffic accidents. One of them looked perfect, no injuries visible. She was a school classmate. The other was an ex-lover, who was killed in an RTA. He had visible injuries to his face and hands, and from the positioning of the supports around his head it was clear there had been damage to his head. Still, I was glad to see him as his death seemed unreal up to that point, and I still put my hand on his one last time.

I’ve never been at a funeral with a closed coffin and I think I’d find it quite strange and detached.

The exact time of death would have to be disclosed or come to light in due course, and the "lie" of saying she was comfortable at 12:30 pm would be exposed - far too damaging.

Clearly, she was already dead when William touched down at Aberdeen airport, as they would have been very quickly moving from the plane - they appeared to act slowly. The car taking them to Balmoral would have been speeding to get there if she was hanging on

As a retired funeral director we usually were asked for an open coffin for families to visit in the Chapel of rest as they often wanted to place personal items with the deceased. The tradition of taking the deceased to a family home is rare nowadays and if it is done its usually on the funeral day for a couple of hours. Lying in state is so the general public can see the coffin and pay their last respects. Regarding preservation of the deceased embalming will be carried out which I always used to explain to families will delay mother nature and slow down deterioration.

Not everyone is. I had my father’s coffin home. It was open until the following day and only closed when ready to leave for the funeral. The same happened with my Mother-in-Law’s coffin and with a friend’s deceased husband.

That’s not my recent experience at all.

In the last 6 years I have attended 6 funerals. All had the deceased at home the night before with an open casket.

We discussed it with the funeral director, aa per mums wishes, and they had no issues with it or surprised.

I think it varies area to area. We live in an area with a lot of people of Irish Catholic descent.

That’s absolutely untrue. Embalming fluid is terrible for the environment. In a ‘natural burial site’ (my choice), it is not permitted. In other places, it’s a choice (though the US is a bit odd about this stuff, so it might be different there).

We went to see what I thought was a coffin once, the person was in bed. Horrific.
I have been to the Chapel of rest for families but would never have an open coffin, too distressing but many cultures do it. In fact it can be many a joke in American films.

I wonder why embalming was so strongly encouraged by my funeral director, when they knew the coffin would be closed and then cremation. It sounds intrusive, could it be for their sake as time had passed… Perhaps I should have refused it 🤔
Tbf I didn’t know even what day it was while arranging.

When my Mum died (2018) her lovely carer (West Indian) wanted to 'dress' Mum and asked if my sister and I would join with her. It was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do but, for Mum's carer, it was symbolic of her love and respect for Mum and I wanted to acknowledge that by agreeing to join her in 'dressing' Mum.

Bodies that are embalmed 'stay good' longer. Bodies that are not embalmed need to be refrigerated with a unit underneath the casket and can be viewed up to about 4 days after dying.

Her majesty would have been embalmed on the day and possibly a chilled mat used in transport as it will be travelling over 10 days that's quite a while without some sort of refrigeration

I’m in my 60s….when I was 6 my grandfathers brother died. We lived in North London but the rest of the family lived in Leek, Staffordshire. His body was in an open casket on the dining table in the front room. I was lifted up to kiss him. It was certainly the norm 60 years ago for open caskets. I saw my dad after he died….not my mum…my dad had been dead for three weeks, they put dark net over him and the lights were off….couldn’t really see him, probably as well after that long.

More common for embalming in the UK maybe as it takes alot longer to get buried??? In Ireland it's usually a few days till burial. In UK it seems to be weeks???

Very informative thank you

Clearly, she was already dead when William touched down at Aberdeen airport, as they would have been very quickly moving from the plane - they appeared to act slowly. The car taking them to Balmoral would have been speeding to get there if she was hanging on
I suspect William prefers to avoid speeding cars.

And the OP didnt need your permission to ask a question.

She probably won’t even be in there