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This new gas price proposal is bonkers

172 replies

whenwillthemadnessend · 06/09/2022 17:10

Tying us into a possible 20 year loan at a cost of 90-130 billion with no guarantee of future gas prices and no incentive for people to change behaviour to save gas save money and save the planet

I may be dead in 20 years and my kids will be paying this off for ever plus covid.

It's the worst idea ever!!!!

OP posts:
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5
GreenLunchBox · 06/09/2022 19:28

Harridan1981 · 06/09/2022 17:49

All this is doing is protecting company profits. Ridiculous

Yep 🙄

DoraSpenlow · 06/09/2022 19:35

The U.K. imports 62% of its gas.

Bear in mind the UK is self sufficient in gas and we supply Ireland, Belgium and Holland. Plus the UK has massively upped production to fill Europe's storage tanks.

These statements can't both be true. Anyone know the answer or where to find it please?

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 19:39

DoraSpenlow · 06/09/2022 19:35

The U.K. imports 62% of its gas.

Bear in mind the UK is self sufficient in gas and we supply Ireland, Belgium and Holland. Plus the UK has massively upped production to fill Europe's storage tanks.

These statements can't both be true. Anyone know the answer or where to find it please?

Google is your (my!) friend...

www.theecoexperts.co.uk/blog/uk-gas-sources
inews.co.uk/news/where-uk-gas-how-much-energy-supply-russia-1779418

A third from Norway apparently

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

perenniallymessy · 06/09/2022 19:42

I think they should be meeting us part way, subsidising part of the cost but not all. Energy prices had not risen that much over the years until the recent price rises, and we do need to reduce our energy usage, especially the use of gas.

Whilst a certain allowance at a cheaper price sounds great in theory, how would you administer it as people who've done what the government asked by installing heat pumps and buying electric cars will naturally have higher electricity bills than others. As would people with storage heaters or other electric forms of heating.

Mostly we need to invest in reducing our use of gas, insulating our homes, de-carbonising our economy and working out a fair level of pricing and taxation for gas/oil suppliers and electricity producers, and looking at time of use tariffs and energy storage to encourage energy use to shift to when it is abundant.

Mumtofourandnomore · 06/09/2022 19:50

The issue with windfall taxes is that it puts companies off investment, if they know that any profits are going to be taken away on the whim of government policy. I watched the Panorama programme last night and although Shell and BP have made vast profits, the programme didn’t point out that where wholesale gas prices have been at record lows over the last few years, producers have really suffered (and we wouldn’t want to subsidise them in tough times !) So if they have to take the pain when prices are low, and then get hit unexpectedly when prices are high, there’s no incentive to invest - or even to exist at all. And even Shell and BPs vast profits (this year) are small in comparison to the cost of the scheme which is estimated to be £130-£200m.

As for energy suppliers, they make less than £10 per customer per year on supply, so it’s not possible to windfall tax them. In fact, they are under huge strain from collateral requirements at present so are still struggling to survive in some cases.

Some generators/producers hedge production so aren’t making £££ (because they’ve essentially ‘fixed’ the price they are paid) - here, the banks are making the money. That’s why it’s difficult to tax electricity generators.

I think on balance it’s a good scheme to help customers at a time of need, but I think it will be repaid through future bills if prices drop, and taxes if not. I guess it will incur interest too, so will be more expensive for end consumers, and obviously it is still really important to use less. I don’t think the government can win here - but I accept people just see windfall taxes as an easy option but they really are not.

I think the government is keen to get something out quickly, maybe standing charges will be reviewed in due course…..

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 19:50

My heart is bleeding for Shell and BP Hmm

Antarcticant · 06/09/2022 19:52

It does give people time to put in place energy saving measures (and a bit more money to spend on them) - e.g. insulation, replacing inefficient systems and appliances - I am in favour of it.

flowerycurtain · 06/09/2022 19:55

Agree.

To solve this without giving in to Russia now or in the future we either need to produce more electricity/gas or we need to use less.

This policy does neither.

And I say that as someone who pays 67ppkwh at present and had a forecast from our supplier that it will hit £1.20 in Jan.

Since it hit 67p I haven't used a tumble drier once. We switch everything off all the time. Our usage has tumbled

IndigoC · 06/09/2022 19:55

DoraSpenlow · 06/09/2022 19:35

The U.K. imports 62% of its gas.

Bear in mind the UK is self sufficient in gas and we supply Ireland, Belgium and Holland. Plus the UK has massively upped production to fill Europe's storage tanks.

These statements can't both be true. Anyone know the answer or where to find it please?

The thing is that while we produce a lot of gas we have barely any storage, so in winter we are a massive importer. Our storage facilities should never have been closed.

caggie3 · 06/09/2022 19:57

What confuses me is that gas prices have supposedly risen due to Russian war affecting supply - why has electric gone up?! Am I missing something? We are electric only (solar panels that generate enough to heat our water and sell some back to the grid) so I assumed we'd be spared some of this, but it seems electric is just as affected as gas. Why?!

(Sorry if being dumb!)

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 06/09/2022 20:01

Energy prices had not risen that much over the years until the recent price rises

Its not just energy though it’s also inflation. So something has to give.

MarshaBradyo · 06/09/2022 20:03

I don’t think usage reduction will be too impacted as it’s just spreading the cost over time rather than two / three big months hit

People will still have to pay just over longer

Although I assume this means prices have to go down for it to work, maybe not if anyone knows more

Blankscreen · 06/09/2022 20:04

We are a high use family and use over double the average. I'm sat in the kitchen and having just looked there are 20 bulbs burning in here and another 6 in the sitting room.

That is terrible for the planet and I have turned lots off.

I feel like a basic amount should be capped eg. the average. Use any more than that and you pay full whack. That way people hopefully will reduce consumption a bit and those who are already careful and live on a budget are protected.

Business needs to be encourage to turn their sodding light off but also protected How many times do you walk past an empty office block and see the lights on. That gives me the rage.

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 20:07

caggie3 · 06/09/2022 19:57

What confuses me is that gas prices have supposedly risen due to Russian war affecting supply - why has electric gone up?! Am I missing something? We are electric only (solar panels that generate enough to heat our water and sell some back to the grid) so I assumed we'd be spared some of this, but it seems electric is just as affected as gas. Why?!

(Sorry if being dumb!)

Price of electric is still pegged to price of gas, as in some cases we use gas to make electricity. This is an outdated measure now as much electricity is made with no gas involvement. Regulator and government have failed us here (as they protect the energy companies, not us Angry)

www.goodenergy.co.uk/why-does-the-price-of-gas-drive-electricity-prices-including-renewables/

VaccineSticker · 06/09/2022 20:08

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 19:50

My heart is bleeding for Shell and BP Hmm

Same here. pass me the tissues please 😑

Wearefoooked22 · 06/09/2022 20:09

The price cap is still going to be 2.5k or 2.1k if she still brings in the £400 reduction,what happens after 2 years if energy prices are still high?..we have to pay sky high prices as well as the 100 billion debt?..

VaccineSticker · 06/09/2022 20:11

Yes borrow our way out and let’s pass our debt to our children and grandchildren so we can make sure fossil fuel companies keep making billions every year. Well done for everyone supporting this. Seriously genius idea. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 in fact it should be standing ovation!

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 20:13

Wearefoooked22 · 06/09/2022 20:09

The price cap is still going to be 2.5k or 2.1k if she still brings in the £400 reduction,what happens after 2 years if energy prices are still high?..we have to pay sky high prices as well as the 100 billion debt?..

Basically yes - because of course we must protect company profits first, they matter more than we do Angry

IndigoC · 06/09/2022 20:13

Wearefoooked22 · 06/09/2022 20:09

The price cap is still going to be 2.5k or 2.1k if she still brings in the £400 reduction,what happens after 2 years if energy prices are still high?..we have to pay sky high prices as well as the 100 billion debt?..

What is the alternative though? People freezing, businesses dying due to outrageous energy bills, 20%+ inflation?

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 20:14

IndigoC · 06/09/2022 20:13

What is the alternative though? People freezing, businesses dying due to outrageous energy bills, 20%+ inflation?

Using windfall profits to hold the cap at the pre-Oct level would help address inflation without passing the cost to either the consumer or the taxpayer.

CatLadyDrinksGin · 06/09/2022 20:18

MinervaTerrathorn · 06/09/2022 17:41

A tiered pricing system with the first x kwh at a lower price would encourage people to cut back. Different cut off or else assistance for vulnerable people with genuine high energy needs.

This.

IndigoC · 06/09/2022 20:18

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 20:14

Using windfall profits to hold the cap at the pre-Oct level would help address inflation without passing the cost to either the consumer or the taxpayer.

There is already a 25% windfall tax on British oil and gas producers:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60295177

Luckydip1 · 06/09/2022 20:18

If it's capped is everyone going to be turning their heating up to the max and having long showers?

Wearefoooked22 · 06/09/2022 20:19

People will still freeze though!…they should spend the money on gas storage.

carefullycourageous · 06/09/2022 20:20

IndigoC · 06/09/2022 20:18

There is already a 25% windfall tax on British oil and gas producers:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60295177

A good start Smile and more to be done.