This new gas price proposal is bonkers

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Tying us into a possible 20 year loan at a cost of 90-130 billion with no guarantee of future gas prices and no incentive for people to change behaviour to save gas save money and save the planet

I may be dead in 20 years and my kids will be paying this off for ever plus covid.

It's the worst idea ever!!!!

The U.K. imports 62% of its gas. For those wanting just a windfall tax, how exactly are we supposed to tax Norwegian gas producers?

I may be dead in 20 years and my kids will be paying this off for ever plus covid.

I was paying for World War 2 for years. I was born 15 years after it ended.

Agreed, when the standing charge is taken into account, those with lower usage pay more per kwh than those with higher usage. I paid more for gas standing charges than gas usage last month!

You're right OP.

It would be far better if we as individuals were allowed to defer payment, to pay what we can, to manage our debts individually.

For there to be financial help for lower rate tax payers but not for those earning 50k upwards. Affluent people do not need help. I don't want the next generation to be stuck with unnecessary debt.

Money printer go BRRRRRRRRR

Can go kick kick kick

WW2 debt was paid off in 2006.

Although there seemed to be no change in taxation after it was paid off.

Yes you have a point it’s redistribution over that time period

I would have like to see more restraint for Covid but for this an energy supply crisis needs something otherwise businesses will fail in large amounts

Knock on from that would be bad

Although with all these packages the potential longevity of the war is concerning

Has there been an announcement about energy bills for public buildings like schools and hospitals and businesses ?

Really interesting panorama last night discussing energy prices
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001bv5w/panorama-the-energy-crisis-whos-cashing-in

I came away thinking the energy producers definitely need to pay more tax - they are making huge profits, especially the electricity/wind/nuclear producers who are not impacted by Nordstream. Hadn't realised that electricity prices track gas so closely.

I would also prefer nationalisation to this. More aligned with what Gordon Brown did with Northern Rock in 2008.

I saw that programme. It was really interesting. The moneybag emojis from Norwegian producers.

And the electricity prices.

I wonder what the deal is for people that fixed above the current cap and have been paying over the odds on the basis that the Ocober price cap was likely to be even more. Will the £100s in exit fees be waived I wonder.

Well what is the alternative? Let people die in their own homes?

I'm happy for my DC to take on a bit of future debt to ensure their classmates have a warm home this winter.

Probably not, that's the risk with fixing. But even paying a few hundred in fees would be cheaper than staying a few months on some of the fixed rates I've seen.

I’ve got some bad news…

£2500 is still more than twice what it cost during winter 2020/21 so people will still need to cut down to make their bills anywhere near affordable and there will still be low income households really struggling so if this is the solution we're being offered, it's not going to lead to people sitting around in their pants all winter with the heating cranked up.

Plus if people aren't careful with what they use, there could still be rolling blackouts usage might be restricted anyway (most people's boilers don't work when the electricity is off).

It is not the fact we need support with bills people are quibbling with - it is the fact Truss is using our money to keep the energy company profits high! Why not use energy company profits through a windfall tax?

Another unwanted loan either way we are paying it back either through tax with interest or now through our bills. If they go through the tax route once gain tax payers are paying for it whilst those on benefits don't. Add to that those who have invested to avoid the price increase using sustainable solar and heat pumps pay through general taxation for something they don't benefit from.

@Grumpybutfunny 'People on benefits' pay taxes too. I'm on benefits, I work full time, pay income tax, NI, council tax, VAT and so on..

I would rather pay it back through tax rather than bills as if the worst happens and I am unable to work it will no be on me, it'll be on everyone else!

But my preference is for the energy companies to be subject to windfall tax so taxpayers/customers do not just have to transfer more money to their profit account

The argument that high prices might change behaviour only goes so far. What about people with electric only heating? They may already be lower total users of energy than those with gas heating but are being penalised as the electricity prices are so much higher. We have an air source heat pump which uses much less kWh in electric than our old gas boiler did in gas. It's environmentally friendly, efficient and potentially operable without producing co2 if the electricity is generated from renewables. The fact that each unit electricity costs so muchore than gas means that price rises hit us way higher than those whose behaviour you might be aiming to change. Feels pretty unfair to me when we've deliberately made an investment to decrease our overall energy usage.

I read a proposal the other day about how the government should nationalise the energy companies, and it made a lot of sense. Basically today's proposal is still just handing taxpayers' money to energy companies.

If the government doesn't act to subsidise peoples bills, people won't be able to pay, and energy companies will go bust. Therefore, the argument can be made that the companies are basically worth £0, and they should be re-nationalised by the government just taking them back into public ownership.

I don't understand the ins and outs of it, but it sounded like it made sense.

Gah, misread. Thought you meant all energy rather than just gas which obvs doesn't apply to me. That said, if I had a gas boiler which used loads I'd be wary to go for a greener tech like ASHP at the moment give n the way the price structure works.

Sounds interesting but the companies you’d want are not worth zero they are worth a lot

As the energy producers are those that have high profits due to market supply and demand etc, the ones that are going bust we don’t want as they are just suppliers

It won’t help us if we nationalise those as it’s still buying from wholesalers at huge prices

@Liebig Your chart is out of date as gas production has increased and is still increasing in response to the Ukraine and Russian war. There are new gas fields and the Jackdaw gas field appears to be going ahead Sadly the environmental progress will also be chucked out the window now unless negotiation starts to bring peace

The fact that each unit electricity costs so muchore than gas means that price rises hit us

You need to watch last nights Panorama. A large amount of U.K. electricity comes from U.K. nuclear power and wind farms. There is no reason apart from profit that the prices need to be so high. It’s not affected by the war.

l think that’s what they said!