It has cost me over £200 to sign my toddler up for classes twice a week

[SpicyJalfrezi]

Then on top of that he has a weekly swimming lesson which is costly - £54 a month.

I know they aren’t compulsory and you don’t have to do them and some MNetters would rather gauge their own eyes out, etc. But it’s pretty sad that people who would like to do them won’t be able to if the cost is prohibitive.

200 a term so prob £15 a week so £7.50
an activity

not bad imo

most churches have a M&T in them

so sure could find one if you drive tnag isn’t too far away for £1-2

I look after my grandson (16m)
We pay for softplay on a Monday ..£3.50 (it goes up once he's 2)
Tuesdays.. local toddler group at church £2 or if I fancy it... an all day drop in toddler group..£2 and a magnificent lunch for £4 (me and him!)
Wednesdays... another fabulous play and stay £2
Weekends if I have him... he we play in the garden and he digs in the dirt, I rotate the toys, he 'helps' with the shopping and walking the dog... free and lots of learning.
I did a yoga class with him but tbh once he could crawl it was not relaxing
I usually aim for one cheap planned activity, then downtime, so most weeks cost between £6-10 max.
When he's around 4 I hope to help out by paying for music lessons (a must) and gymnastics as there is a fab local club.

We walk to all activities as he generally nods off on the way home...win win! I'm a half retired special Ed TA so sign with him, we sing songs, dance to music and some days just potter around. But I refuse to pay ££ for 'baby sensory' and the like when I have the skills to do the same myself with him for free!

I think the issue here is you have changed what you say your thread is about as the thread has gone on.

If you wanted to lament the ending of the SureStart programme and the demise of Children's Centres; or you wanted to say that you had noticed many Church run stay and plays or playgroups had closed down near you, then you probably should have led with that. You would probably have got a very different set of replies from starting the thread with a very unclear post about how you had paid out over £200 to sign your toddler up for classes.
That is bound to get a very different response.

@BeanieTeen

Firstly, deciding to live in a remote village with no public transport if you don’t drive is a pretty dumb move that most people don’t make, especially when they are going to have a baby - how do you get your child to appointments? How do you get yourself to work when your maternity leave ends?

There's a baffling number of people on Mumsnet who don't learn to drive & are in this position. I would feel completely trapped.

Kite, to be honest I am not sure why the thread has proved so contentious.

The thread title is simply a fact, this is what it has cost.

People are repeatedly arguing that I don’t have to do this (I know) and saying triumphantly that they go to activities that cost much less - exactly.

Converse, the thing is that in most areas of the U.K. there is a fine line between urban and rural. I live twenty minutes from one big town and thirty from a city. It doesn’t mean getting to either is easy on public transport. Or cheap, if it comes to that.

As said above, I don’t know why observing that the gap between affluent and not affluent has really widened in part due to covid has proved so contentious, but then on MN there is often hostility related to parents of very small children.

I think the issue here is you have changed what you say your thread is about as the thread has gone on.

If you wanted to lament the ending of the SureStart programme and the demise of Children's Centres; or you wanted to say that you had noticed many Church run stay and plays or playgroups had closed down near you, then you probably should have led with that. You would probably have got a very different set of replies from starting the thread with a very unclear post about how you had paid out over £200 to sign your toddler up for classes.
That is bound to get a very different response.

Yes, it’s kind of the equivalent of starting a thread saying ‘gosh and golly, I had to pay so much for bulgar wheat and blueberries this week, it seems so unfair that some children never get to eat these foods because their parents can’t afford them…’ to ‘I mean, there are parents going without food so they can feed their children, isn’t that awful?’

It isn’t the same at all, @BeanieTeen

One toddler group isn’t dramatically different to another in the way different foods are. Most parents who do them just want to get out of the house, meet other parents, let their child have some fun and be exposed to different people.

Now around here, if you want to do that, you need a not inconsiderable amount of money. Swimming is out, the library is out, playgroups are out.

Some parents will be extremely creative. Some will be fortunate enough to have many family members and friends living locally who take an active part in their child’s life. But is it really so contentious and worthy of so many scathing remarks to say that some parents and children will be spending autumn and winter lonely and bored and that this will have a knock on effect when those same children start school?

And when you say ‘your title was misleading’ this is plainly wrong, as the title is a fact, no more or less.

What you mean is ‘some of us read the title and couldn’t be arsed to read the rest so just had a go anyway.’

@SpicyJalfrezi why do you say "library is out" when a previous post of yours says your nearest library is open 3 times a week.

@Needmorelego , what I mean is that that particular library is only open three days a week and doesn’t have any specific toddler activities on. I don’t know how I’d while away an hour or so there just looking at books. My DS just doesn’t have the attention span. He’d inevitably start running around, shouting, taking books off shelves and throwing them and disturbing others.

If you have a car and can afford fuel and can get to a different library, fine, but not everyone can.

@SpicyJalfrezi most libraries have a toddlers corner with a few toys and paper and crayons so it's not just looking at books. A lot of parents do informal get togethers at libraries - adults chat, toddlers interact with each other.
(I am a non driver btw so driving to different libraries is irrelevant to me)

what I mean is that that particular library is only open three days a week and doesn’t have any specific toddler activities on.

If they don't have it, and you want them, why don't you ask the library to do some? Maybe you can offer hosting some activity yourself if you have any skills, as well as asking others to do the same?

Yes as @grapehyacinthisactuallyblue said - have you actually asked at the library?
All you need for toddler story time/rhyme time is a (DBS checked) volunteer. I have considered doing it in the past but unfortunately my circumstances have meant I couldn't.
But if no one ever asks "do you do toddler Rhyme Time" they might not think there is the demand.

Now I understand what OP's thread is really about, this is actually a point I was making during lockdown.

So many mums with babies and toddler were saying they were isolated because they couldn't get family support or go to groups.
I had my children pre-lockdown but I had no family support and couldn't afford groups (granted I did go to a £1.50 toddler group, which I totally accept is way better than nothing) so I don't think my experience was much different. I went for a walk to a park every day and hoped to see others. Sometimes I did and sometimes I didn't. But nobody was talking about isolated mums then.

Sad that it seems that the lessons of lockdown were not learnt and still nobody cares.

Maybe women need to get better at helping others? Even the ones that do have family support and can afford £200 for groups? Maybe especially them? There isn't a toddler group? Advertise a get together at the local village hall (or wherever) on a local FB group and go from there.

I have read all of op posts, and it looks like there has been a lot of backlash to this thread.

I understand you may have just been commenting on how sad it is that lots of families will struggle, but without offering any answers or help what's the point? I think if YOU were struggling it would make sense, looking for tips or others in same boat to share concerns. But you're not. So I suspect you may have offended other posters who can't afford the classes you can, and they are trying to say they can still give their kids a good start on a lower budget if they are creative.

That's the only explanation for any arsey replies isn't it. I just don't see the point of your thread, did you want other parents who CAN afford such things to join you in saying what a shame for those who can't?

For what it's worth I could when mine was a baby and toddler, some were a waste of money others were great but I'm glad I had the choice. I agree it's awful that so much has been cut and it will be hard for many families. I wouldn't start a pointless thread about it though, it just feels a bit self indulgent

Its a good thing then that no one makes anyone start threads on Mumsnet, isn’t it and it’s no more or less pointless than any other thread observing that many things have changed and many not for the better.

It’s more than ‘a shame’, it’s something that is going to impact some quite vulnerable people disproportionately. Yes, some will get free nursery placements at two but not all will and in any case, the purpose is to do something nice with your child, not have them elsewhere for part of the week because local services aren’t great.

@SpicyJalfrezi yes I agree there has been lots of cuts in services everywhere.
However you have said where you live there is a low cost toddler group (just not on your day off work) and your local library is open 3 days a week. So that's 4 low cost places where parents and toddlers can meet with other parents and toddlers. 4 out of 5 of the 'working week' isn't bad really.

I’m not sure the local library - which is three miles away and offers no toddler sessions - is a suitable place tbh.

But it is good to hear not everywhere is under similar pressures.

@SpicyJalfrezi as I previously said though - a library doesn't need to have offical organised sessions. Parents could just meet up and hang out together there.
Libraries don't expect children (or anyone) to be silent these days so a small group of toddlers looking at books, maybe playing with small toys and parents chatting is no big issue.
Libraries are fairly unique in the fact that anyone can just be there with no obligation to spend any money. They can just be there.

That’s one reason why 2 year olds from low income families (currently the household earnings cut off is £15,400 earned in the tax year prior to their second birthday) get 15 hours per week nursery entitlement - because it’s shown children from low income families are deprived in that way!

Statistically, the one thing that makes a difference to a child's success outcome (assuming good health and a 'usual' upbringing in terms of housing / nutrition etc) is reading and books in the home.

That's it. One thing.

Sorry, I should have said reading as in being read to by or with an adult, so even before a child can read independently.

Exactly.

I am also confused by this entitlement that "someone" should provide something.
Why can't the parents who are looking for some kind of get together...er...get together and arrange it themselves ?
That's what I did when mine were small and I saw a need.
That's what my Mum did when we were small, and there was a need.
It is how toddler groups and stay and plays have always run - be that in your library, or your local Church, or village hall or community rooms or Scout hut or whatever. These days you will also find there is someone in your Local Authority who will offer support and advice. It is also much easier to get word out with Social media than it ever was.

I’ve been called many things in my time but not entitled before.

I think some don’t seem to realise I didn’t post in AIBU. I’m not looking for an argument here and I’m really surprised at how determined some are to turn the post into something unpleasant or to call me horrible names when the tone of my post wasn’t like that.

Ir was merely a thought I had as I booked those classes that not everyone would be able to afford them and I do think for many of those parents they will miss our, even if all the children want to do is look at books for ten hours at home.

To be honest @SpicyJalfrezi when I had my daughter the idea of paying for 'classes' wasn't even on my radar.
I didn't know much about babies/toddlers but I kind of knew that parents took them to groups like 'mums and tots' (generally called Stay and Play these days) or story time at a library or to run around a park and when they were age 3 or so maybe off to a 'playgroup'.
When the Sure Start centres were first introduced it ironically ended up being more middle class parents who signed up for the groups than the 'low income' families they were aimed at. I honestly don't know the reason why - but I often wonder if it was more that the idea of taking a baby to a 'class' just wasn't something many parents even thought about doing.