It has cost me over £200 to sign my toddler up for classes twice a week

[SpicyJalfrezi]

Then on top of that he has a weekly swimming lesson which is costly - £54 a month.

I know they aren’t compulsory and you don’t have to do them and some MNetters would rather gauge their own eyes out, etc. But it’s pretty sad that people who would like to do them won’t be able to if the cost is prohibitive.

Also, a music class at £7 a week would be £105 for a block to take you until mid December, less a week for half term. So not that different really.

Well it I'd rather disingenuous to say it's not about the cost for you when your title just mentions money. And it was not at all clear what you were paying for, which is why people thought you meant over week, not per term.
So it's per term. Break it down. The people who run these things aren't paid that much, the venue is rented - or if not still requires paying gif. Insurance etc - well no one is getting rich doing this.
As for not doing it - I could afford these sort of things, and both kids had swimming lessons and ball play), but if I couldn't have afforded it there was the play park, which is free, and certainly allows the children to exercise, explore And make friends. I also met up with post natal NHS group (we met up after he classes stopped, until they stated school). Three of the women worked but we managed to find a convenient time.
There are always activities that cost varying amount of money. Sure there are families who can afford lots of things, and those who can't afford any and a number who can afford some. This has always been the case. I'm not sure what your point is.

Up until a few weeks ago we had the same costs but we are moving in the autumn so didn’t sign up for new ones.

Sure we didn’t need baby sign language, I could have learnt it at home but it was nicer to get out (especially having a baby born in lockdown!). You can go Splash about at the pool but my two year old can swim independently using a kick board, I wouldn’t have known where to start on my own! I don’t think ballet classes would be quite as appealing on YouTube. She clearly won’t specifically remember swimming or dance now but she is learning valuable skills.

We are lucky living on military base that we have masses of activities and free baby classes put on for us because the other local, low cost one is at a very preachy church.

It's in blocks of 5 classes, so £45 a 1/2 term, and we catch the bus there... it's about 7 miles as we're quite rural.
We walk to the library though :) and usually go to the park for a run around too!

My maths was off... think it might be blocks of 6 so £42 a half-term... can't remember, paid for the next half-term at the start of july :P

@mondaytosunday

from the OP

”it’s pretty sad that people who would like to do them won’t be able to if the cost is prohibitive”

And the post natal NHS group? How many of the babies born between March 2020 and recently will have had mothers who benefited from these? Again, any antenatal or post natal groups had to be paid for.

All I am saying is that in order to make friends and to enjoy these sorts of things parents have to pay a not inconsiderable amount. If they choose not to that is fine. If they want to but can’t, then that is not really fine.

And to be honest I think a lot of these ‘well I never did XYZ’ are the disingenuous ones.

It is like saying that because you skipped lunch because you were on a diet that someone missing lunch because they didn’t have any food in is a comparable situation. It isn’t. Going to the park and getting filthy and muddy on a cold winters day is jolly japes when you have a warm house to return to and can easily afford to run a washing machine and tumble drier.

This says everything I was about to say.

Er..... some people have more money than others...... is hardly newsflash is it ?

Toddlers don't need classes.
You have said that there are cheaper classes but you can't go as you are at work, so presumably your toddler can do lots of interesting and stimulating things when at Nursery. Those that don't go to Nursery / parents don't work have more time to seek out different things and time to walk further to the library, for example.

but there is next to nothing free or cheap.

To be fair, though, these classes are run by someone (often another mum who wants a source of income). And she has to hire a venue (which in turn has to fund an electricity bill etc). So it won’t be free; there are costs associated with it and you need to pay for someone’s time. (In my experience, people running baby classes aren’t usually raking it in. It’s something they do as a part time job because they enjoy it and it fits with their own kids.)

Of course. I have no issue with that, but I do feel it is a shame there is so little available (despite the desperate attempts to claim there are numerous low cost activities here because I mentioned there is a once weekly toddler group for £2!) for those on a lower income.

The libraries aren’t open regularly. You can’t get in to swim at the local leisure centre. The toddler groups and playgroups have all stopped running, and even meeting up with other mums from your antenatal group isn’t happening if you had a lockdown baby. Yet everyone keeps insisting it is all fine, children don’t need groups and why don’t you go to the park.

I accept this is not the case everywhere and I am glad to hear it - but it is storing up problems.

OP what childcare do you use when you are at work?

I had no problem getting toddler a dentist recently. I just assumed that getting an NHS appointment was only a problem for adults.

Nursery - but I’m honestly not seeking advice on my childcare or on activities on my days off, @TopGolfer . If that has sounded arsey then I apologise because that’s not the intention, but my motivation when starting the thread was more a lament on how much has changed and how difficult it must be for some parents on a low income at the moment.

Its a problem, @Pinkflipflop85

I couldn’t get my 20 month old in anywhere. Eventually had to get him (and me) in as private patients, but it really is a lot of money. Of course, teeth are one of those things that are essential - unlike toddler groups - but if you don’t have £75, you don’t have it.

If they choose not to that is fine. If they want to but can’t, then that is not really fine.

But it was always the case. Nothing has changed since I was a kid. Parents do best they can. And it's sad if someone can't afford it, but good thing about these days is that even if your parents can't afford something, children can easily find tutorials etc online.

Toddlers from more affluent homes spend their preschool years learning and seeing … toddlers from less affluent homes … don’t

That's a completely ridiculous assumption

Totally agree with you. We're lucky to have a lot of excellent church playgroups and library rhyme time in our area, which both my children adore. The paid-for alternatives are also brilliant but eye-wateringly expensive. I don't know what I'd do without the church groups and their wonderful volunteers - all of which run for between £1 and £3 a time. I'm not in the slightest religious but feel much more positively towards the church since having children. It fulfils an important role imo.

There is a lot of research done into the importance of the first five years. That doesn’t mean it’s essential for toddlers to do baby ballet or music or learn mandarin. What it does mean is that it’s essential for toddlers to have a range of experiences with a range of people.

It is possible to do this without external support, but it isn’t easy, especially if you’re on a low income anyway.

Take the one (despite everyone claiming otherwise!) local toddler group that’s £2 here. I don’t have much money but I walk to that and on the way we are out anyway so we do go to the park and then the group and on the way back call into the shop for some milk and bread. All of that’s a learning experience for a toddler and I get that you can do the park visit and the shop trip without the group. But the day is so much longer and lonelier - and the toddler has only had mum.

Plus there is a CP aspect here. Many GPs aren’t seeing patients F2F and HVs and the like aren’t really doing the rounds either. Regular attendance at groups can help flag potential problems for preschool children, particularly non verbal ones.

I didn't spend the money on classes for my toddlers. They had nursery, and I did lots of activities with them on my days off. Now that they are older, I think between them both their hobbies/ classes cost just over 1k per annum. It would devastate me to have to stop them. Luckily I no longer have the expense of nursery.

There will be parents with the cost of living crisis, that are having to make these difficult decisions.

If you don’t drive, the only toddler group in your village stopped when the first lockdown happened and never restarted, you have barely any spare money after the bills, what do you do with the long hours? Yes the park and if you’re lucky enough to have local friends and family great - but no way would I personally be motivated to sing endless rounds of The Wheels On The Bus whilst trying to clear up the latest carnage that resulted from attempting to bake with a 20
month old.

(I hate baking. And I am crap at it.)

This is all going in a bit of a weird direction.
Firstly, deciding to live in a remote village with no public transport if you don’t drive is a pretty dumb move that most people don’t make, especially when they are going to have a baby - how do you get your child to appointments? How do you get yourself to work when your maternity leave ends?
Secondly, so is attempting baking with a toddler if you don’t like baking… Do you think parents who can’t afford toddler classes or driving lessons are obliged to make up for it by taking up baking 😂
Singing nursery rhymes and ‘motivating’ yourself to entertain yourself and your toddler (not through baking, but through whatever means works best for you) is, I think, basic parenting. What else are you going to do - lie on the sofa all day, leave your baby to stare at the wall because you need an expensive class to motivate you to do things with your child?

and everyone has the luxury of choosing where they live, do they @BeanieTeen ?

and everyone works? Everyone can afford to work, given childcare is not cheap?

What else are you going to do - lie on the sofa all day, leave your baby to stare at the wall

Well yes, some parents do, and it’s easy to be scathing about them until you are the one living in a rundown area with very little money and trying to get through the days.

I mean yes, you can be unpleasant about them, some people are.

or think about why they might be like that and how they can be helped. Offering accessible sort of things for young families is one.

Also, many private dentists do take on children for NHS treatment. As a pp said, it’s not like trying to find an NHS dentist as an adult. And if they didn’t, I would then not be spending £200 on toddler classes to keep primarily myself entertained. I would prioritise my second child’s dental health making sure their teeth stayed as ‘nice’ as my first child’s.

@BeanieTeen , do you honestly think any parent is saying ‘oh, never mind their teeth, let’s do baby ballet instead?’

Do you not think it is more likely that they can’t afford either? Meaning that by the time they start school, some children will have had a variety of experiences and exposure to different settings (which may or may not involve structured classes but can also be extended to trips, holidays, even things like farm visits - costs £30 here for a parent and a child) dental care and so on, and some won’t.

And that’s going to cause problems, isn’t it? I can’t see how it won’t. It certainly won’t solve any, which is surely what the government should at least be attempting to do.

If your toddler goes to nursery on some days then they get all the “activities” they need from that and classes you do with him on his non nursery days are a waste of time and money. An almost 2 year old just learns from the environment around them so going on walks or meeting friends with similar aged kids is fine. They just need to discover the world around them.

I don't understand the obsession with spending fortunes keeping kids entertained 24/7. Never happened in my childhood. My parents had zilch money to spare, no playgroups or nursery back then. I started school at nearly 5. Plenty of free stuff to do, an children need to use their own initiative and develop skills through play, they need boredom to fire up their own imaginations.
No need for helicopter parenting, theirbwas no such thing when I was I was a kid and I turned out OK