Struggling to cope with my sons’ ‘boy’-ness

[workwoes123]

I’ve got two boys age 11 and 14. I’m from a family of mostly females - I have one sister, of my five cousins only one was a boy (and he was the youngest), both my dad and mum only have sisters. I went to a tiny primary school (4 in my class, all girls). I’m not used to boys!

When they ‘play’ together it’s a constant stress. They ‘play’ fight constantly, which inevitably turns into a real fight when the oldest hurts the youngest. Even when he’s not fighting with his bother, the oldest is lunging / crashing around: bashing into things, saying “come on then” to inanimate objects that get in his way 🙄. He wants to take up boxing, so is constantly throwing pretend punches, talking about ‘breaking’ people and other macho bollocks.

Is this normal? Will it pass? I’m finding it exhausting to be around, trying to protect the youngest and frankly anything fragile in his vicinity. Neither his dad nor grandfathers are remotely ‘macho’ .

At that age they need to be active and burn a lot of energy, the boxing may be a good idea and if he goes to a decent one they will teach him a lot of discipline as well.

boys that age also often respond to male roll models from outside the home as well

This sounds like a boy who hasn’t really been disciplined or taught boundaries as a child, it will now be much more difficult to sort but you have to do it.
The playfighting could be OK but yours is out of hand and the bashing into stuff and constant aggressive reactions should not be tolerated. Don’t send him to boxing, that is rewarding and validating his aggressive instincts. Rugby or cross country would be much better.
To all who say this is normal, take a good look at your sons. They are the ones going out there getting into fights in clubs,making people unsafe in all sorts of manners. Meanwhile you think you have raised a “lovely boy” as all these parents of thugs do.

My boys are younger 10 and 7 but they love wrestling and play fighting and it is good natured.
I also remember my brother as a teenager loving to practice punching ( getting me to hold up my hands/ a cushion ) and went through a phase shadow punching inanimate objects. He was at one point too aggressive and I as his younger sister took the brunt of this.

Your son looks to be at the same point. It’s common/ normal but please clamp down for the sake of your younger son.

Boys are not girls, no matter how many mumsnetters delude themselves otherwise. But both need to know how to respect other people’s space and belongings.

Suppressing his energy won’t help. Redirecting it may, as will increasing his awareness of people around him. How much sport or outdoor energetic activity (that he is interested in and that has structured rules and boundaries) does he do? Hopefully a lot. And once that’s in place, you need to come down hard at home if he damages people or property.

My older boys (16 and 14) have a lot of banter and do play fight on occasion but it never turns nasty or aggressive. If it did then I wouldn’t tolerate it as they are both very tall and one of them could get hurt. I think I’d ban ‘play fighting’ in OP’s situation if I knew it would end in actual
fighting. Mine occasionally argue but don’t ever fight physically.

I am not sure if it’s more of a ‘boy thing’ but mine wrestle each other like 6 foot tall toddlers but they are laughing and it doesn’t bother me, although I have never wrestled my siblings and don’t understand why they do it!!

They can also be sensible and mature when they need to be and get on very well.

I work with small children and have a degree in Early Childhood, rough play is positive for small children! It’s fine if you think it’s ‘rubbish’ or ‘bollocks’ though, hopefully you children will learn to regulate themselves in other way. It happens with both sexes, though sadly girls socialized out of it by our shitty world.

Teen hurting younger child is clearly unacceptable , but in younger children it is normal and important.

www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/play-fighting#definition

www.child-encyclopedia.com/aggression/according-experts/play-fighting-during-early-childhood-and-its-role-preventing-later

www.researchgate.net/publication/315790152_What_is_play_fighting_and_what_is_it_good_for

www.nurseryworld.co.uk/features/article/eyfs-best-practice-all-about-rough-and-tumble

amp.firstfiveyears.org.au/child-development/boys-understanding-rough-and-tumble-play

It’s bullshit that only boys whose parents condone it behave this way. I have two boys and for years have been disciplining my older son (13) for behaving this way with his younger brother (10). Loss of treats/privileges, sent to his room, in-depth discussions of managing emotions and feelings, come-to-Jesus type chats, whatever. When he is bored or upset at the world (he is a glass half empty/victim mentality type of person) he ends up wrestling etc with his brother to relieve the feelings (or spread the pain?!). I hate it but can’t stop it other than never let them be in the same room together, which I have tried but younger brother looks up to his older brother. Since the older one started secondary school it has gotten better and they physically wrestle a lot less so I am hoping they outgrow it completely.

A lot of those articles talk about learning to take turns, you can do that without fighting

It's completely normal behaviour to square up to inanimate objects?! It really isn't you know.

Oh god this is bringing back annoying memories.
My older brother used to do the pretending to box thing constantly as a teenager, it drove me insane. Couldn’t stand to be in the same room as him.

But unfortunately I think it is normal for some boys.

My brother did take up boxing, at least it meant he was out of the house and had an outlet for his annoyingness. If there is a boxing gym near you that he can go to it might be good for him.
He doesn’t have to actually do fights, it’s practice, fitness etc.

I would come down really hard on this. Totally and utterly unacceptable. I’d be taking gadgets away for fighting, banning stuff etc. And I certainly wouldn’t be encouraging any sort of boxing etc - one because it’s something they want to do - why should they be rewarded for awful behaviour, and two because if they are already violent it’s just encouraging more violence and personally I don’t agree with it at all. But that’s just me.

I have a son and a daughter and we don’t do play fighting. I don’t let my son play fight or behave the way your sons do at all, with anyone.

It is, unfortunately, very normal teenage boy behaviour. It's fashionable these days to say that "boy behaviour" doesn't exist and if it does, you've somehow created abnormal children. Sadly denial of biological reality and a head in the sand approach seems to be a sign of our times! Yes this type of bollox is typical of teenage boys (anyone ever watch the Inbetweeners?) hopefully it will pass for you soon x

Men, and particularly teenage boys, have high levels of testosterone. Women, in comparison, have low levels of testosterone. This hormone affects these type of behavioural traits. So please ignore posters saying women and girls don't behave this way due to conditioning/socialisation - no, it's because they are not going through the testosterone surge that comes with male puberty.

Not all boys for sure , but for many testing and physicality is a common rite of passage from boyhood to maturity , never ceases to amaze me on mn the number of people who dont get that boys aren't girls.

But it needs to be managed correctly, and he needs to be taught to have respect for those around him. I assume you wouldn’t be allowing to him to ‘play’ like this with a daughter.

Even if testosterone plays a part in this it isn’t acceptable.

You don’t just excuse bad behaviour due to hormones.

Can we excuse all male violence due to testosterone? Say they can’t help it

I'd suggest a sport less focused on individual aggression than boxing, tbh. What about cricket, football or rowing? All completely exhausting, timeeconsuming and competitive plus you have to learn to negotiateteam dynamics. Good cricketers tend to have had a sibling because they go and bowl at each other for hours on end.

Lol at the idea that this highly socialised behaviour is all completely natural and inevitable. Energy levels may be higher with testosterone but the aggression isn't inevitable at all. My son did have a go at BoxFit because he fancied the girl who invited him there but punching people has never been his idea of a good time.

I think it is quite normal in a family dynamic of two boys.
I have two son's eighteen months apart and I well remember when I think they were very young pre teens I was always dragging one off the other if I had left the room. I seem to remember my youngest was keen to invite me to wrestle with him at one stage. When he was much older it was not unknown for him to lift me up. Certainly seemed to be a phase they went through and as you say trying to prevent it before one of them became worse off.
Both mine were always competitive whether it be academically or physically. Neither one of them displayed any other aggressive tendencies and it eventually became something they grew out of naturally.

If your 11 year old told you that he was physically attacked and hurt at school by a 14 year old you would be marching up there to get it sorted. So why is it okay for siblings to do this to each other?

Punishments for physical fighting should be severe. Both children are above the age of criminal responsibility. We teach this in primary school, you do not put your hands on anyone without their permission, that goes for hugging just as much as shoving.

My sons love a wrestle but ds1 naturally stopped when he was 12 ish and realised that it's ridiculous to fight someone 5 years younger because of the size difference.

ds1 doesn't live at home any more but now that they are equally sized, I do wonder if they'd play fight if he came round.

My sons both did martial arts and loved it. Lots of their friends did martial arts too.

Sounds perfectly normal to me. Doesn’t mean normal = pleasant 100% of the time. Joining a gym seems like a good idea.

My closest family is mostly boys/now men. 3 brothers, my son, 4 nephews. None of them were anything like this. Squaring up to inanimate objects and acting aggressive, intimidating those around them in the process, very rarely happened any hint of it would be nipped in the bud straightaway.

I don't know why you are attributing any of that behaviour to them being boys, my sons are practically the same age and have never behaved like that.

I'm not sure why anyone would send more aggressive children to boxing! Get them in a running or swimming club to burn off the energy.

You need to find something to use up energy that isn't aggressive.

For those "horrified" by this behaviour and also horrified at discussing boys specifically, read this

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/growing-friendships/201506/do-boys-need-rough-and-tumble-play

But, OP, I agree that your 14yo needs some kind of focus for his physicality and how to manage that with his hormones. So boxing, or a marshal art would be great.