Struggling to cope with my sons’ ‘boy’-ness

[workwoes123]

I’ve got two boys age 11 and 14. I’m from a family of mostly females - I have one sister, of my five cousins only one was a boy (and he was the youngest), both my dad and mum only have sisters. I went to a tiny primary school (4 in my class, all girls). I’m not used to boys!

When they ‘play’ together it’s a constant stress. They ‘play’ fight constantly, which inevitably turns into a real fight when the oldest hurts the youngest. Even when he’s not fighting with his bother, the oldest is lunging / crashing around: bashing into things, saying “come on then” to inanimate objects that get in his way 🙄. He wants to take up boxing, so is constantly throwing pretend punches, talking about ‘breaking’ people and other macho bollocks.

Is this normal? Will it pass? I’m finding it exhausting to be around, trying to protect the youngest and frankly anything fragile in his vicinity. Neither his dad nor grandfathers are remotely ‘macho’ .

Boxing is a fantastic idea, I would definitely sign him up. My 12 year old son does MMA and its great for focusing his energy.

My boys are 12 and 15 so same age range as yours and the size difference is massive, the oldest is the size of a grown man at over 6ft tall and solid, the youngest is still a little boy. They often play wrestle, but the oldest is very aware of his strength and has never hurt his brother. 3 years is a huge difference at those ages and your oldest son really needs to respect that.

This! He is in the midst of a teenage hormone storm OP, it will get better. In the meantime, try to channel his energy into something useful - any sport will do, even boxing!

This

My 2 sons used to play fight and then things used to get out of hand and they'd hurt each other. I solved that by making it a game - they'd choose wrestler names (American Wrestlemania was on tv a lot in the 90s) and stand on opposite sides of the room. I gave the rules - no punching, kicking, etc) and then I'd ring a bell to signal the start of a bout. After 3 minutes, it was the end of the round and I'd ring the bell again. It worked well and nobody got hurt.

My sons are 41 and 38 now

I’m so fed up of people senidng badly behaved kids to martial arts classes to ‘learn discipline’. This is a myth. IT DOES NOT WORK.

What you get is a little thug now trained in martial arts practicing some very nasty kicks and chokes on classmates in the playground. I’ve seen 3 kids go this way and all got way worse after taking up martial arts (different classes from each other).

I think it's normal....for lots of boys. Not all are like that obviously but many are. They're not aggressive, violent thugs ..they are full of energy though! They need heaps of exercise and their urge to fight channelled in a positive direction....martial arts perhaps?

I’m so fed up of people senidng badly behaved kids to martial arts classes to ‘learn discipline’. This is a myth. IT DOES NOT WORK

Depends on the teacher imo. My ds karate teacher was always reminding the kids that you never initiate a physical attack. If you are attacked, once the threat has gone, you do not make any more moves. He was an extremely positive influence on the kids he was teaching.

This is unbelievable nonsense.

Because your sons didn't play fight, that makes OP's sons 'not normal'.

OP, as you see you have had mixed responses. Every family & individuals within that family, are different.

In my experience, that kind of physicality between boys is not uncommon. That doesn't mean deliberate aggression is ok - but I have two DSs, 13 & 11, despite them age difference, they are similar in size (youngest is stronger actually). They are extremely close. Love sports & are very good at it & competitive.

They seem to have to physically interact a lot - often play fighting but can easily escalate. The younger one is also so ... loud; thumps up & down stairs, can be heard everywhere.

I do find it mentally draining.

I think it's up to each family to navigate their tolerance of this. For me, I tend to limit the play fighting stuff as it's still loud, and invariably escalates. It's tiring having to do it though.

I do think it's normal though - and I have an older DD (15) who can be really sharp & screechy with her brothers when she wants to be, which is also wearing.

Deliberate hurting & bad language is not tolerated at all in our house, which doesn't mean it doesn't happen ...

It’s bullying OP.
It may be OK for your older DS to behave this way with someone of the same age/ size/weight as himself, but how do you think this will this affect his younger sibling?

Where is the boys' father?

Your older son is trying to establish dominance in your house, which you are paying for, and while you are supporting him financially.

Stop the bashing into things now. Stop the playfighting.

Neither of the boys should have the time or the energy for all of this rough behaviour. They should be doing chores and studying and doing sports.

I would say no to the boxing. That just validates all of the performative aggression, which he clearly considers to be an attribute of value. Get him into swimming or cross country or some other sport that will burn off all that energy and teach him discipline without reinforcing the idea that hitting people is a manly thing to do.

There is some unbelievable bollocks on this thread. Yes it’s normal. No potentially not in your scenario. This explains why.

www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/growing-friendships/201506/do-boys-need-rough-and-tumble-play?amp

I think it sounds like he is trying to assert his dominance over you and his sibling. You need to be firm but fair with him and pick him up on behaviours you dislike. When he's saying 'come on then' say 'that's a bit aggressive and ridiculous, I hope you know that's not how we speak to people in real life'. What is he watching? Does he have open access to things like Netflix? What sort of music does he like? He might be picking up this macho stuff from there and it's worth chatting about how TV characters / music personas aren't the real person.

I have a 14 year old boy and a 16 year old girl. For those who are sure this is normal behaviour, ask yourself why this is only ‘normal’ in families where there is more than one boy? I can assure you my son does not beat up his sister or aggressively threaten inanimate objects. My husband also never did this with his brother, nor did my two brothers. Our parents did not allow it. The only families I know where the boys carry on like wild animals are all-boy families where the mums refuse to rein in their darlings and resort to sexist descriptions like sly, bitchy, catty etc to describe how girls are ‘so much worse’. Go look up the statistics on male violence and get back to me on what behaviour is ‘worse’.

OP you have effectively an adult beating up a kid. It’s not acceptable in any situation. It’s not normal and your son does not ‘need’ to do it. He needs to learn some acceptable ways to burn energy and how to treat people with respect.

What is your eldest like at school? Is he able to modify his behaviour there or does he get himself into trouble?

I really recommend the book 'the boy crisis.'
I am not worried about the boys being aggressive - but they do need to learn to control it. This should be done via clear discipline in the home and it'd be helpful if they had a physical outlet via sport.

I think it's normal. The eldest needs an outlet for his physical energy. Boxing might be right, or you might need to send him out for a run in the morning to let it out. Does he play any sport at the moment?

No, my boy children don’t do this. They actively avoid these types of boys at school and step aside when kids start to rumble at sports practice etc.

Rubbish.

I would say no to the boxing. That just validates all of the performative aggression, which he clearly considers to be an attribute of value. Get him into swimming or cross country or some other sport that will burn off all that energy and teach him discipline without reinforcing the idea that hitting people is a manly thing to do.

I'd agree. Even my friends' kids who do the non contact type martial arts seem to do a lot of play kicking and chopping of their siblings, which I know isn't the ethos of them. I'd be worried that boxing, despite the discipline needed, might just encourage them to play flight more effectively.

Rugby's good for funnelling aggression and has a position for most shapes and sizes. Or hockey or football. My teenage sons also like the gym and running, which would be encouraged if you play any of those sports. Whatever they do, an outlet for excess energy would help I think.

This ^
Mum of two boys the same ages as OP's. My two would never dream of behaving this way.
One thing having a little fake wrestle when they are kids, but what's happening here is plain bullying and aggression.
I just just didn't stand for it in our home from the beginning. All this 'boys need rough play' is bollocks. Some kids will play rough...if you let them!

It's probably a bit late now if this kind of 'play' has been normal in your house.
Not sure how you turn it around?
I hope you read enough of the comments on here saying it's not normal. If you don't like it in your house then do something about. There's enough aggressive men out in the world.

I have 2 boys and a daughter and my boys have never behaved like that. I don’t think that’s regular boy behaviour - you need to stamp out the physical fighting, of course that’s exhausting to be around

I agree with this. Find a good club and they’ll learn him to channel his enthusiasm into an appropriate outlet.

Teach him** deary me

I have 2 ds 7 years apart and they do play fight a bit. However they know an escalation would not be tolerated. The minute it stops being fun for one then it stops and you need to enforce this. The 14 year old should not be using any violence on his db. You need to talk to both and say it is not acceptable.