Collapse of normal life

[OldPot]

It feels to me that this is what is beginning to happen. Spiralling bills that surely only the well off can pay, shortages of things we all took for granted (2 of my mum's regular medications are out of stock, no chemicals for the local swimming pool, things opening for a few hours instead of all day (post office, banks etc), NHS on its knees, many other services just not running as they should). Plus the sodding infernal heat and drought this summer.....

And yes I know we are luckier here in the UK than many, many others countries.....but I just feel there is no turning back to life pre-covid.

@Boybandfacedfannyfart Also, a single salary of £100K in London makes you fairly comfortably off, not ‘richer than Croesus’. We live in a 2 bed cottage with a tiny garden in a not especially trendy suburb, and although we’ve made a positive decision to educate DD in the state sector we couldn’t comfortably afford the school fees anyway. I’ve already acknowledged that we’re fortunate compared to many, but global elite we are not.

There was someone good on this morning talking about impact if media today but also that these crises force development

He mentioned the vaccine, didn’t hear the war one but wish I had - maybe energy security and turning to renewables as part of that

There’s probably parts of history where positive things rise out of the bad, although it’s not great for everyone of course

I went to the chemist before we came on holiday to collect a prescription and thought it looked very bare.The pharmacist said there are problems because of Brexit with medication supply and with many over-the-counter items pharmacies stock which are often made in Europe.

Apparently Johnson put Give in charge if making sure they stockpiled stuff but that has run out and the demand exceeds the supply chain ability.

Todays news that fuel bills will exceed £5000 for an average house is sickening - and the big energy companies have been to Downing St and refused to help by lowering prices. Time the government stopped hiding behind Ofgem, enforced caps on prices and privatised the big companies.

Fourth industrial revolution and major financial reset yes. It's not even a secret.

All?

It doesn’t seem that way. Most people seem to be doing OK.

My friends who are on an income of around 90k are struggling. Every penny is now accounted for and I think it’s madness. They live in a normal house in a normal area, no luxuries, holiday in this country. I came away from our conversation wondering how on Earth anyone warning a standard wage is going to cope if high earners are worrying about bills.

Why are people blaming Starmer? Labour has not been in power for 10 years! This is Tory doing, and saying there is no alternative is a Tory spin too

Here's the thing though. Those people are accustomed to a certain lifestyle and don't want to downgrade. I'm a 40K household with one child, admittedly in a very cheap part of the country, but I think the fact that I have always been on the poorer side means I'm not worried about being in debt, not having much money, not being able to have a holiday etc. etc. etc. I've without eating for three days, I lived with any gas or lecci for three days. I "can" go without.

People on 90K can't even imagine what it's like to go without for many things, and I think there's something of a bell curve of the very poor and very wealthy who will ride this out better than those in the middle.

Presumably your friends have huge childcare costs, private school fees, or massive debts. Or all three. If they are literally burning money. Because otherwise on a take home of £5,000 a month and claiming a very basic lifestyle with no treats, they’re not being honest with you.

I know them quite well and they are honestly really ordinary people. I guess I have no idea about any possible debts but in terms of lifestyle, completely standard. They have four children though so I wonder if that’s tipping the balance.

State school, all children out of nursery. Larger family than standard though.

Where do you get your news from, OP? I think some sources are going overboard with the doom and gloom. My sister, who owns her own home outright and works in a secure job and has savings and pensions lined up, is talking (like you) as if the end of the world as we know it is heading our way and seems really terrified.

Meanwhile I read an article in the Economist earlier today about how inflation has started to go down in the US and how the economy there is still growing and unemployment is lower than it has been for a long time. I know the UK's shot itself in the foot with Brexit on top of everything else, but then people who voted for Brexit did say they were prepared to go through a few years of hardship before things settled down.

I lived through 15% inflation in the 80s and 90s. I'm still here. We'll get by.

Yes, when you take a child out it can incur something like £30 for the child, and if you have three more that's £120 right there and then for a day out, sometimes not even a day.

So, I get that.

But "ordinary" to them is not what's ordinary to me, I would hazard? I don't go to any type of salon, ever. I walk most places and don't wear designer clothes etc. etc.

I think an aspect of bringing in 90K, and rightly so, is that feeling of not having to think, say about how much you're spending when you go to Tesco. I will be making a mental note to only spend up to say £40, they will be popping whatever they want in. And they don't want to give that up, and why should they, they've worked hard specifically to get to that point.

It's just that I can manage on very little where I don't think they "can" partly because they don't want to, and I agree they shouldn't have to.

I do wonder if people have an idea of the lifestyle that 90k will bring you but honestly there are no salon visits or designer clothes. Plus shopping is also budgeted for as we talk about that too.

Im fortunate that DP is a high earner and I’ll admit that I don’t budget for food shopping. But I also don’t have my hair or nails done, no lashes or massages. I shop at charity shops and all my shoes and clothes are pre-warn. That probably does make me unusual though. I’d rather have savings than spend.

I agree it’s really difficult at the moment, one of the reasons DH & I am having a small party at the weekend, people are just so bogged down, it will be lovely to have a few hours with friends and neighbours without the stress of the everyday. I am not a party person usually, only had parties for charity or special occasions in the past, other than kids parties of course.

90k I pups bring you salon visits and designer clothes if you lived in the same house as is typical for people on 30k

I pups = will

Yep l agree. Feels like living in anarchy at the moment.

It's all part of the agenda OP. Once people see that, maybe things will change.
Until then.... buckle up butter cup.

This is the thing that bugs me. I don’t want to just “get by”. This isn’t post war 1940s Britain. That attitude of “we will have to get used to it” drives me mad. The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer and nobody seems to give a monkeys about the energy companies making literally billions of pounds of profit in the past year….Supermarkets too, it’s disgusting, the poor have been hoodwinked into voting Tory to benefit the rich just like the republicans did to the poor in America, it’s astonishing it really is. There is a whole load of bloody money that could help everyone out being hoarded and hidden away by the super rich. And they will just sit there watching us starve and freeze this winter. We need to be more like France and actually protest. This country is a bloody disgrace.

It's interesting. I was wondering where your money was going, then you said you saved. But if we think of saving as spending in terms of the money isn't yours to use, then you spend it in that sense.

See, I am in debt by 10K and make £600 a month.

How much do you have in savings?

It IS a totally different way of life.

I'm hardly bragging, I made poor choices in terms of finances, very poor.

But we can't pretend we have similar lifestyles. You're raking it in compared to us, it's just fact.

I think it also depends what we all mean by "manage". I don't have a mortgage so no one can reposes my home. In the same vein though if the bills go up to a grand a month you'd still have to pay because debt for you means potential loss of your home, whereas I could simply refuse to pay and then claim debt relief and never be worried about loss of home security.

I really feel the most for those on the breadline who are privately renting, compound it with metered utilities. They'll top that meter up no matter what, their rent won't get paid.

They are going to lose their homes in droves. What will happen then?

i really feel for the young just leave college...

the young will get jobs as we have an ageing population & more vacancies than people looking for work. However these young people are going to be paying higher tax, higher house/rent prices, higher education costs, higher pension contributions & more for everything in general but with a lower quality of life & won't have free prescriptions at 60 to look forward to or early retirement & unlikely the NHS will exist in its current form. For ones with means I would look to other countries for better opportunities, most of Europe needs more young people

Yep,

Apparently the revolution never comes. Except it does. and the wheels have been falling off since approximately 1914. England has been in economic decline since 1914 or thereabouts.

I have been talking about this since 2008 and been called a filthy commie. Its amazing to me now that people are swinging to the left, demanding change, predicting riots, talking of not paying, demanding strike action be coordinated and government nationalise utilities. It was always a given that when the sludge is washing up around their knees people want "more socialism"

People, revolution isn't something we chose, its simply a fact that capitalism is not transhistorical and that it came into being, not at the direct behest of men. But yes.....indeed there is going to be a few feinting episodes, people will suffer and it seems that the end of civilisation (at least as we know it) is inevitable.

If anyone wants to understand google the "fragment on machines" which was written by Marx in the C19th. It predicts that capitalism will cease to be in operation at the point where value is no longer created by the exploitation of labour. Even mainstream economists are starting to point to this prophetic piece of writing and talk about the fact that capital is in decline due to the falling rate of profit, the decoupling of value creation from labour due to AI, mechanisation and technology. Autonomist Marxists (of which I am) have been pointing out the fact that capitalism is not just in irreversible decline but actually is at a point of collapse and that it is now some sort of phantom hanging about trying to eat its last meal.

Agenda? 🤨

Could you explain what anarchy means to you?