Can I change my attitude towards sleep?

[Deadharm]

I remember coming on here years ago, hating mornings and asking if anyone could help change my mindset. It only went and worked and I've been good with mornings ever since.

Wondering if the same could be said for sleep. I have real issue with being woken up or if I don't get enough sleep. Which is difficult atm as I have a small baby whose sleep is shit.

For reference, my ex used sleep deprivation as a form of abuse for 13 years. As a result I am now unable to sleep without earplugs, and I get angry when woken from my sleep.

Can I somehow change this attitude? If so, oh wise women of MN...how?

All you thoughts are about not getting enough sleep rather than enjoying the sleep you get. I found I Can Help You Sleep by Paul McKenna really useful when I was going through a time when I wasn't sleeping well at all.

Yes this is true. Its my mindset and has been since my ex fucked with my sleep so badly. So for around 20 years. I also have really neurotic bedtime habits...have to have a special pillow. Earplugs. Eye patch if sleeping in room with no black out blinds. Cold pillow in hot weather. Hot water bottle in cold weather. The list goes on.

I want to be happy about the sleep I do get ...but I just always feel crushed when I get woken up by something external. If I wake naturally by myself I am absolutely fine.

Just closed my eyes to sleep and felt really panicky. Like what's the point of sleeping when I'm going to get woken before I've had enough? It only makes it worse. And then I thought...I'll never have enough sleep. I will always be this tired.

My train of thought really needs changing but I don't know how. Can't afford private therapy and tbh I'm therapied out, after 3 years intensive talking to therapists. But I can't go on like this. I'm worried my husband is getting fed up and he is always so patient and kind. He is tired too, he has a stressful job woth long hours and does all he can. He is great around the house and with the other kids and baby. I have literally nothing to complain about. He was a bit short with me just now, I think he is getting exasperated with my tiredness.

Not sure if this is relevant but ive been suffering migraines recently. Like I've had 5 or 6 in the past 2 months. It's the knes with no headache but the flashing lights in front of my eyes.

I have a headache now though 😕

Maybe with a young baby, you need to accept that you will be tired to an extent. It's just a normal part of parenting, however stressful it is.

I'm exactly the same. And I'm generally a fairly calm, patient person, but I get so rageful when I don't get enough sleep. And if my husband ever did (quite reluctantly and fecklessly) try to help out, it made me even angrier because I knew it wasn't actually going to help!

Going to bed ridiculously early helped me somewhat, and my babies did their best sleeping at the beginning of the night. But that's trickier if you've got a 10yo as well.

Do you listen to podcasts at night? I like it because if I'm awake, at least it's interesting, but also I find it really easy to fall asleep whilst listening, and that level of noise seems to work better than earplugs for me.

Also, yes- lack of sleep is my biggest migraine trigger.

Yeah baby has his best sleep between 8pm and 12am but it's difficult because 10 year old and also that is my toke to relax and have a glass of wine, catch up with dh etc. Even when I have gone to bed at the same time as baby I fond it hard to switch off. I'm usually falling asleep just as he's waking for his first feed. And then I want to weep again.

Haven't tried podcasts, no. Maybe will give it a go. Any recommendations?

I agree with a PP, you might need to try and accept that being tired is a normal state while you have a small baby, not something that should be avoided at all costs. It might also help to knock the wine on the head for a bit. I find even a small amount of alcohol makes me feel tired the next day, so that could be an easy win.

I tend to listen to woman's hour- partly because I like to feel like a proper, grown up feminist, and partly because it's really easy to fall asleep to 🤣🤣🤣

Don’t eat at least 5 or 6 hours before going to bed.

Ditch the booze.
Bathe in warm water an hour or so before bed using lavender.
Keep your bedroom cool.
Play rainfall sounds.

Didn't think about the wine! Oh god but ...the wine!! I love my wine!

Dh and baby are back...going to have a shower and get on with it

I've also only just discovered comedian Ken Cheng, I find him properly hilarious (and he's already got three whole series on BBC sounds!)

I managed to reframe my attitude not to sleep but to tiredness when I had a small baby keeping me up at night. Prior to having children I'd always seen tiredness as something I would fix the next night by getting a good night's sleep but suddenly that was impossible. So I changed the way I let tiredness bother me. I just said to myself - yes I'm tired but I'm fine and healthy and I can do the things I really need to do, and just kind of accepted being tired a lot. Often tiredness comes and goes after a bad night's sleep, it doesn't always need "fixing" with a nap or a full night's sleep. And if the cause of the poor sleep is a baby, that will get better in time.

Surely your 10 year old is in bed 9pm or so?

It is really hard to overcome ingrained patterns of thoughts. I second the suggestion of a sleep clinic.

Bluntly, the glass of wine won't help. Can you start trying a herbal tea, or kombucha?

I think you just need to get some more sleep. DH comes home from work and you nap. Weekend, have a nap. Sleep is a basic human need.

I would ditch the wine.

It sounds like anxiety is a factor and alcohol makes that worse and leads to poorer sleep.

My thoughts about sleep weren't linked to trauma like you, so this might not work/might not work long term, but definitely resetting my expectations worked. So going to bed at 10ish expecting to be woken at dd's normal pattern rather than waking up frustrated definitely helped me.

Firstly, I wanted to say how much sympathy I have for you. The sleep deprivation of having a little baby is really hard and it's normal to an extent to get obsessive about sleep (there's a reason that the baby sleep industry is so huge and worth so much money). I was obsessed with sleep when I had small babies and I was lucky enough to have always slept well before them.

BUT I also think you need to look at possible underlying causes, since from what you say about your childhood this has been lifelong. I know you think it's all psychological and a result of your previous horrible abuse, and this may be the case, but I think there might actually be two other possibilities here:

1. There is actually an underlying physical reason that you need much more sleep than average or why you don't get restorative sleep, which may or may not be treatable but which should be investigated.
2. It is psychological but is a deeply ingrained coping mechanism from childhood and/or a symptom of an underlying mental illness. To be clear, I am not saying this isn't to do with your ex or absolving him. But I wonder if he realised that sleep was an existing issue or coping mechanism for you and that's why he targeted it - that he cruelly exploited the vulnerability and greatly exacerbated it, as abusers often do, rather than being its sole cause?

On a very practical level, I read about coffee 'naps' and have found them really helpful for me - you drink a cup of coffee and then lie down for 20 minutes, with no expectation you'll sleep (but fine if you do) but you must rest with eyes closed for the full time. The alarm then goes off just as the coffee hits and you get a burst of energy - there is apparently evidence that this is more effective than either the coffee or the nap alone: www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/8/28/6074177/coffee-naps-caffeine-science. Obviously it isn't a substitute for proper sleep in the long-term but it is a good immediate burst and gets me through tough days.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/8/28/6074177/coffee-naps-caffeine-science

Definitely ditch the wine - it won't be helping your sleep, invasive thoughts or anxiety.

Have you tried herbal sleeping aids like Kalms? Take them an hour or so before bed with a glass of warm milk.

Wow this is odd as I’ve had a similar experience especially after my first child.
I put a lot of emphasis on sleep
and whether I can have a good day or good mood , depending on sleep!
So I can actually relate to you.
I get angry if woken up, it’ ruins my whole day. (And everyone around me too probably)
I saw a gp and other health people ,after my baby they said in the end it was ocd , health anxiety and pnd.
i had meds - not that useful - like you said
and Cbt - actually quite good!
The Cbt made me challenge my thoughts and beliefs and I then realised that a lot of it was in my head and I was making it worse for myself. Your thoughts feed your mood and actions.
can you call gp or nhs mental health line and get a referral
your a high priority if you have recently had a baby?
I'm interested in your morning post now , as I often wake up tired and depressed , so I’m going to look for it!
hope you can get some help asap

I think 1. and 2. are both right, actually.

I'm not a coffee drinker but I'm desperate so will look into this

I just wish I could be okay with being tired. It's like it makes me so angry and resentful. Today is a particularly bad day, and that's after 7 hours sleep last night!! Some days I'm okay, I just accept I'm tired and crack on with it. It's dhs day off and he takes over baby duties so I should be happy but I'm just feeling so tired and annoyed at myself. Wtf is wrong with me??

I do think it's my mindset. I am so negative about sleep. Its never enough, instead of being grateful for the sleep I do get. My eyes are just so sore amd heavy andmy stomach feels like it has a black hole in it just getting bigger and bigger as time goes on and every sleepless night accumulates.

I recently tried cbt for something else and didn't find it helpful. I think by the tike I was doing it I was therapied out...I'd done taing therapy and group therapy and I was fed up of therapy!!

But yes about thoughts feeding into my mood and actions

Spoke to dp he says he's worried about me. I will book gp apt next week. Also agreed that I will switch phone off at 8pm as it keeps ky brain too active. My mind is continuously busy and I use my phone to note things down or to send emails or messages as and when j think of them. I agreed I would use a note pad and pen of something came up, amd I would set aside time the next day to get those things done. It might help I don't know. Also thinking about low alcohol or non alcoholic wine to replace the real thing.

Will also try herbal stuff...kalms...