Children who are bright/clever

[HeartofAss]

I see this sort of thing quite often: in parenting groups, parents will say something like: "My child is not achieving academically at school, but he is very clever" or "My daughter is struggling at school. She's really bright but she's behind in all her subjects"

I always wonder, what does the parent mean by 'bright'? Or, if the child is not achieving at school, how does the parent know that they are 'clever'? What is it that the child does (at home) to indicate that they are a particularly clever or bright child?

Just curious really, about how we use language and what people mean when they use these descriptions. And what people think indicates being bright/clever if it isn't traditional things like being good at maths/writing etc

Not just reading disorders. I think all kids should have a proper ed psych screening at Yr 3 and then again yr 7.

75% of kids in youth offending institutions, when screened, meet thresholds for diagnosis and that's just those who commit crimes serious enough to go to prisons, and who are caught doing it. What about those who are just unemployable, or in the mental health services?

It costs us billions to fail kids who, with proper support and help, could be happy, ordinary, paying taxes and building lives. And yet so, so many crash out of school in the secondary years with complex mental health problems, or reach the criminal courts. It would be massively cheaper to meet needs in the primary and early secondary years, than it is to fund broken lives in perpetuity, even if nobody cares about the trauma. It's poor economics as well as immoral.

My kids have good support and are now thriving. But they had it because we sourced that and then forced the issue. Otherwise, my son would be in a psychiatric support boarding school right now and my daughter heading for one (they are autistic, and have a range of linked learning difficulties - but even my own vanilla ADHD left me with severe depression for years, because of the shame of being 'bright but lazy' - so avoidable, given the miracle cure of medication and diagnosis). Instead, my son is doing A level maths work at 13. He's happy and engaged with life, and same story with my daughter. That's not the story with friends whose kids were picked up on at 13/14, and not 5/6. They are failed, and the cost of picking up the pieces of those failures is horrendous for the state, even if nobody cares about the terrible impact on the children themselves, and all those who love them.

Yes, by definition most kids are broadly average. Not all are bright. But what many parents probably mean is, "brighter than their work indicates.." and many are probably right.

So true. At my dyslexic ds2’s parents evening I was told “he’s obviously intelligent and has a great vocabulary as he is very good in discussions but he’s just not getting it down on paper” Well duh 🙄

@ReneBumsWombats Nowhere did I say that parents wouldn't want their children to be intelligent (not always granted) or encourage them. But I have seen competitive parenting where because one parent has talked of grades - whether music/sport/languages/math - and all of a sudden other parents are all booking up extra tuition and pushing children to do more and more. And doing their homework for them.

As PP have said, there are lots of ways to be a great member of society. Unfortunately our society is somewhat skewed so we pay eg carers less than most.

They grow up to be the kind of person who falls for a romance scam and gets described as "normally so intelligent".

Fact is, lots of people have a pretty low bar for the word intelligent. They see people navigating daily life without much trouble, but the fact is that most daily tasks don't require much intelligence. Also people tend to be surrounded by people who have similar skills and experiences, so grade ourselves on that curve.

They grow up to be the kind of person who falls for a romance scam and gets described as "normally so intelligent".

What kind of person is that?

A lot of the time they are asking if people think they might be dyslexic.

Schools are structured almost exclusively for the learning styles of extroverts.
The lessons, particularly in Primary School, are group based activities; discussions, answering questions, suggesting ideas.

If you are a child who needs quiet thinking time to process your thoughts and develop your ideas, prefers to work alone and engross yourself in a task, is overstimulated and stressed by too much noise, bright classroom displays, easily thrown off course by interruptions and distractions, dislikes constant change from one activity to another, then school becomes a daily test of endurance rather than a peaceful and satisfying learning environment. Your strengths and abilities can neither be appreciated nor thrive there.

I've just got to add to the list of late blossoming children.

I live abroad. My friend's dd failed entrance exams to three different primary schools. Then in later years, she sat the entrance exam for the top public university five times and failed to get in. Her mother paid for her to go to a private college from where she transferred to said top university. She ended
up with an Honorable Mention in her Masters Degree.

They grow up to be the kind of person who falls for a romance scam and gets described as "normally so intelligent"

Fact is, lots of people have a pretty low bar for the word intelligent. They see people navigating daily life without much trouble, but the fact is that most daily tasks don't require much intelligence

Hahaha. My sister has near genius-level academic intelligence and ended up in a high flyer job, but she can be as thick as two planks on some things.

I consider myself quite clever. I've ended up as a senior lecturer in a RG Uni. At school I didn't apply myself at all. You can be bright and clever as a child but non compliant.

I really agree with this.

All the maths was group fun activities - usually had a delay of explanation before set up - so DS with hearing and short term memory issues was constantly missing details - even my DDs who coped better still struggled.

All of them have had issues with group work.

Totally agree. I hated group work as a child and struggled with it. When I started teaching i struggled to offer it because I found individual work projects so much more satifying to plan and deliver. But I've learned to do some group work now.

Oh yes.

I once knew a guy who genuinely believed that pool table pockets were fitted with gravitational fields. He also believed that cash points printed money freshly for each customer.

He was reading medicine at Cambridge.

Smart kids with learning differences often display a lot of very motivated self taught learning behaviour at home, but it doesn't translate to school because traditional methods of learning are really tough for them to engage with!

What about the hours of quiet and solitary study in a bedroom or library required in secondary school for exams? Plenty of this! And it’s torture for the extroverts.

So it’s only fair that everyone is catered for but you’ll never please everyone all of the time.

So then you had good academic skills (perhaps, looking at your subject choices, more skilled verbally than mathematically?) but poorer physical and social/emotional skills.

So overall you were average. Like most people. Everyone has different strengths and few people have it all.

And I agree with you that not being bright in one area doesn’t mean you’re not bright in other areas. As you found out during your unhappy childhood.

I realise this is an old message, and you may or may not see it. However, I’ve been searching for answers on this topic and this thread came up. This answer bothers me and others might be reading it.

You’re a teacher and should know better. To call an able child lazy is not ok. Do you really know he can’t be arsed??? Or might it be that he has unidentified learning barriers that is preventing him from accessing the work?

Loving the own sound of his voice - maybe he’s neurodivergent and likes to talk about things he’s interested in but doesn’t read social cues to know when to stop.

maybe he doesn’t do the work because writing is really difficult physically and mentally or the work isn’t scaffolded to make sense to him and support him.

maybe YOU need to look at YOUR teaching strategies to help to motivate and support him rather than say he can’t be arsed.

your attitude is not ok. The way you describe him is shocking.

I was once the child that was called lazy and stupid. My mum knew I was ‘bright’ and had me tested by an EP and it turned out I was in the top 0.5% cognitively. That’s top 5 in 1000 peers. The EP also noted that I found it extremely hard to focus and needed tasks breaking down, needed rest breaks, needing motivation, reassurance, stretch, challenge etc etc. verbally I knew it all. I found exams super hard, due to slower processing speeds and interpreting the meaning of what questions were asking me for. Didn’t have extra time in those days. I’m now diagnosed Autistic and ADHD. I suspect I’m possibly dyslexic. I have a degree, masters, PGCE. Got a distinction in my masters since I could type it and no exams involved. I’ve burnt out because it takes me longer to do many things than the norm.

my son is similar. His teachers told me he’s meeting expectations. They tell me he stops when he’s done the bear minimum. He finds writing very difficult. It is extremely effortful for him. He’s been called lazy. His teachers last year wrote him off as he couldn’t be arsed. My son really can be. He gave up asking her for help. He makes lots of mistakes. He’d love to “make use of his knowledge and understand why he needed to apply himself to his school work” as you put it. He does know this now, because I support him with this understanding since his teachers don’t seem to realise he doesn’t get that connection if not explicit. He’s autistic, adhd and I suspect when I get his EP report (paid for privately to prove teachers wrong) I think it’ll reveal he has dyslexia and or dysgraphia. There is a mismatch between his ability and his application. He IS arsed. It’s not been picked up because some of his teachers see him as meeting expectations and they haven’t bothered to actually talk to him and realise his potential and support that. He should be greater depth. The school are failing him.

Be better. Learn about your children. Listen to what the parents say. They know their children. Perhaps your job share has a better gut feeling.

When a parent describes their child as bright, ask them for examples. Try to unpick what they find difficult at school.

Reading level well above their actual age. My DS had a reading age of 15 when he was 8.

Asking 'big questions' and discussing the answers and understanding the science at a young age. For example, is time travel possible, other dimensions, understanding the structure of an atom, speed of light, sonic booms, how engines work, how electricity is generated.

Solving long multiplication, algebra sums and multiple part maths problems in year 2.

Amazing memory recall.

Ability to play and remember melodies on the piano straight away.

Questioning the existence of god, father xmas and the tooth fairy from a young age.

Intelligence - high.

Emotional intelligence however - low. Difficulties self regulating.