Children who are bright/clever

[HeartofAss]

I see this sort of thing quite often: in parenting groups, parents will say something like: "My child is not achieving academically at school, but he is very clever" or "My daughter is struggling at school. She's really bright but she's behind in all her subjects"

I always wonder, what does the parent mean by 'bright'? Or, if the child is not achieving at school, how does the parent know that they are 'clever'? What is it that the child does (at home) to indicate that they are a particularly clever or bright child?

Just curious really, about how we use language and what people mean when they use these descriptions. And what people think indicates being bright/clever if it isn't traditional things like being good at maths/writing etc

I think you would know, if you have clever/bright kids. Small thing they do may show the difference from the norm, like manage to open the baby gate, disassemble the toy without breaking, figuring out something comple without being taught, etc., maybe?

I had a 2 year waiting list to be seen on the NHS - and that was before austerity hit, never mind Covid. With my child we went privately, and she was seen in six weeks.

Sadly, I would advise private healthcare if you can possibly stretch to it. The NHS has to take over the meds if you get diagnosed privately - there is guidance on that - you need the private clinician to write to the GP allowing them to do so, and you MUST be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, who can prescribe, in order for that to be possible. ADHD meds have to be initiated by a specialist consultant; a GP can't do it.

I can't say enough how worthwhile it can be. Women with ADHD have been playing on Hard Mode all their lives, while being told how lazy they are. The irony is that we worked harder than anyone, just to cope at all.

It doesn't work for anyone (and it overlaps with autism, so I suspect in some cases meds don't work because it's autism, and not ADHD, at issue) but where they do, they are life altering.

That's me! I've got mild dyslexia and while I didn't struggle my spelling and (to mask it) handwriting were - inventive.

I managed to be in extra classes at both ends of the spectrum - the Mensa class and the remedial class.

My dyslexia got properly diagnosed when I was an Oxbridge candidate but couldn't consistently spell the name of the subject I was applying for.

I would like to think that there is a much better understanding of what being "clever" means these days. Children do not learn in a one size fits all mould, nor are they all generalists.

If you judged me on a spelling or maths test I'd be a dunce. Average at best. But in pretty much all other areas top 1%.

My dgd is nearly nine and bad at reading and writing but she has an amazing vocabulary in two languages and a good memory.

@perfectstorm Great post. I have a similar DC. I'd be so grateful if you could let me know what software your son uses!

I agree, although I’m the opposite. I learnt very quickly that passing exams was a skill I had natural aptitude for and that they ran on a system, and set about getting good at it. I now have two average degrees which I don’t really deserve based on work done. I can be perceptive, clever, intelligent and good at problem solving, sometimes. Others I can be daft as a brush and dim as a penny candle. I’m was sometimes lazy and often lacked focus at crucial points.

My child is much cleverer than I am. If only she would accept that there are valid resources out there, she’d be academically brilliant. Sadly, she thinks she can figure everything out herself and cannot be persuaded to so much as Google it, let alone open a book (as I speak she is trying to work out how to make pyjamas for our dog and I have suggested in vain that someone else may have tried it and there may even be……instructions!). So she will either be a glittering entrepreneur, or an abject failure, depending on whether or not she can get over this slavish devotion to autonomy, or chances upon something lucrative. Academically she is doing very well, but with little effort or application and there is only so far natural ability can take her (I assume) at some point she is going to have to knuckle down and learn stuff. And I’m concerned that she is not building those skills.

Ditto! Please

What I meant wide vocabulary, insightful questions, make links and remember stuff and often picked things up quickly.

What other people mean - I think depends on them.

My children did struggle in early school years - they are summer born and took longer to read - the school still used mixed method teaching and there a strong family history of dyslexia and associated conditions.

My primary didn't think very highly of my academic potential - secondary set with tests at start of year - I did well - at University I was diagnosed with dyslexia and later other conditions. DH did really well academically which wasn't expected by his schools till A-level.

We were told DS just didn't have a "maths brain" - which given DH has maths degree and I have A-levels didn't seem right - so again support at home he made huge progress last few years his secondary maths teachers have said he really should do maths A-level and think about maths degree.

Their teachers now often describe them as hard working and bright and they do well in school as teens.

Yes, this is DS too. A teacher told me I shouldn't worry about him because he's a lovely, capable, articulate boy who will do well. It was a bit patronising but I took it in the spirit she intended. The same teacher and I have already been giggling about how different DD is to DS - she will be teaching DD next year and there's been some handover and general interaction. DD is good at classroom learning, sails through new tasks et, but is clearly not nearly as "capable" as DS.

Remember Garrison Keilor's Lake Wobegon, “where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average”? It's given rise to a term, the Lake Wobegon effect', the tendency to overestimate abilities, achievements, and performance.

He was assessed by a company who usually do university assessments - www.chace.ac.uk - and they recommended a lot of things, but for the mind mapping and scribing it was 'Inspiration' and 'Dragon Professional Individual'. It's complicated as he has a lot of overlapping, and sometimes conflicting, needs so his package is extremely individualised, but those two deal with the specifics around narrative and sequencing, and executive function (writing and thinking at once posing a challenge!). Happy to talk more on PM if that would help.

Agree most parents think their children bright/gifted/talented or strive to make them so in some sort of parental arms race. There should be a tick box on friendly/supportive/helpful.

Most of the children in my DC's class who didn't bother going to uni are doing better than those that did, though many did evening classes/day release after leaving school. And running their own businesses they've caught up on maths sharpish.

My Great grandma moved to the West Country during the war and took in a number of evacuees. She was very proud (though not supportive) of her three children and how bright they were. Ernie at 6 was not attractive or "bright" according to my GGM. In fact he was "slow". He became emeritus professor of molecular physics. "He lived with us in his formative years," said GGM.

Agree most parents think their children bright/gifted/talented or strive to make them so in some sort of parental arms race.

Why wouldn't you want your child to be intelligent or try to encourage learning?

My friends teen Dd is in the lower sets but she’s so bright funny and capable am sure she will catapult her more studious peers! When her “friends” were leaving out one girl she turned down her invite and went to town with rejected kid. She’ll go far.

In my dc school they publish each term what they'll be covering and there are some dc who are trained over and over at home on the same things until they get them. One dc in our class gets up at 4:30am to start her 'training' and the mum insists on this happening so that they are at the top of their class. (They told my dc this)

This does work to a certain extent and I'd assumed they must be bright to cope with it. Until home school during lockdown occurred and I realised that anything outside of what was printed on the projected syllabus. Due to lockdown they'd changed everything around and for the first time the dc was having to do things not on the school sheet. They struggled so much whereas other dc we're doing reasonably well.

So there can be really bright dc who naturally get stuff imo these are the genuinely clever ones, trained dc who will get stuff but need lots of attempts (which is better than nothing) and dc like mine who get somethings and not others and imo are 'normal' intelligence which is generally what's required to get through a big standard life anyway!

Bright means different things to do with different people.

Most people don't want to say 'normal', I struggle to say my children are SEN as sometimes it opens them up to comments such as 'poor little mite' -err no, they aren't.

I saw my daughter was different in terms of milestones very early -talking properly by age 1, proper words. Full on sentences and conversation at 2. Didn't need to 'teach her maths' she just absorbed everything. She did a spelling -she remembered it. She read a book she remembered the facts. She asked questions, she questioned the answers.
She followed rules.

Teachers saw that she was good, they didn't didn't see how good until she started secondary. She thrives on a good lesson on an argument, on intellect. She is independent and self lead.

My son has problems with language, dyslexia testing soon. Autistic. But my god he can do maths, easily, give him a lock at aged 2 and he could take it apart and put it back together.

Some parents mean bright to justify poor results. The best is 'my son didn't pass his GCSEs he really was far too bright for that school and the lessons and was bored -the teachers failed him'

I take bright to mean they can learn and there is a spark and with the right environment and support it would ignite.

It probably also depends on why it's being said.

I think the only time I every described the DC as bright to anyone else was when another parents /family member was implying they weren't as they were on a lower reading level than another child or set - often in front of my child as some form of point scoring.

DH has repeated comments teachers have made about our teens - as being bright -his parents seem to have taken that to mean Oxbridge as one of their friends GC children went there - DH had grades to get in but then it wasn't for likes of them - we are more likely I think we're look at good universities decent degrees but possibly not 3/4 As at A-level - which I think is good and will get them where they want - and possibly they may not want to go to university though older two have said they want to - but IL do seem disappointed - though they do try and not show that to the children.

I would have described my son as bright but not academic at primary school. He was an emotionally mature and articulate child- you could have great conversations with him. He understood people well and had a calm, kind disposition. He had an enduring mind and was always asking intelligent questions about the world around him. We went on many days and holidays to different places and he understood concepts and the way the world worked. He knew a lot of facts (particularly about football) about history, geography etc. He was adept at navigating different social groups and situations.

But he struggled with school work and reading. He only really began to excel in year 6 and got really good SAT scores.

I have a great example off this - a mum told me in hushed over-awed tones that “The doctor said ds is really bright”. Her ds was 8 months old 🤦‍♀️ she’d taken bright to mean intelligent instead alert which is what I presume the doctor meant…

of not off. Obviously I’m not bright

This is so, so true.

I taught one lad that found academic subjects almost impossible to master. He had not been able to learn to read and write effectively and it wasn’t for want of trying. So many methods had been tried and none worked.

He of course, became disillusioned and gave up. What he could do though, which I’d venture to suggest, not many people can, was to be able to take a bus engine apart and put it back together. He had skills, but they were definitely not in the areas that are covered in school. He wasn’t particularly articulate, but could hold a conversation about the parts of an engine.

I don’t know how you’d describe someone so lacking in the basic skills needed for everyday life, but with a niche capability at a young age.

I find this op a tiny bit offensive and sneery to be honest. There are lots of different ways that a person can be clever.

My husband for example was never academic, but does a (very well paid) job that a lot of academics wouldn't have the first clue about or be able to learn. There are all kinds of people with different strengths that are hugely important to make the world go round.

I have a 'clever' child. The one who struggles in some areas is bright as a button. Witty, can carry a conversation with anyone, unbelievably sensible for their years, imaginative.

She’ll go far because she is capable of independent thought AND of acting on it, not just sitting in her room thinking but never doing.

And she’s a nice kid to boot. Good for her!

There's a lot of children that are above average in one way or another so could be described as "bright". I think of it as having curiosity, absorbing knowledge, being able to think for themselves. Not being being relient on being spoon fed. May or may not be academic- that's quite a narrow focus and bright can be broader.

Most children in my DC's school could legitimately be described as bright. It's an above average area, and an average child at the school is above national average. I've taught in a large variety of schools and there's a lot out there that well educated familes in good schools can be very insulated from if they don't work with the general public.

Bright being well used doesn't bother me; it's not a direct synonym for genius which should be used sparingly.