Children who are bright/clever

[HeartofAss]

I see this sort of thing quite often: in parenting groups, parents will say something like: "My child is not achieving academically at school, but he is very clever" or "My daughter is struggling at school. She's really bright but she's behind in all her subjects"

I always wonder, what does the parent mean by 'bright'? Or, if the child is not achieving at school, how does the parent know that they are 'clever'? What is it that the child does (at home) to indicate that they are a particularly clever or bright child?

Just curious really, about how we use language and what people mean when they use these descriptions. And what people think indicates being bright/clever if it isn't traditional things like being good at maths/writing etc

Maybe most parents describe their kids as bright because most kids are bright.

Most kids aren't amazing academically (otherwise we'd all have straight As) but that's a very narrow definition of intelligence.

I agree.
Handsome is as handsome does.
Whether you get As or Fs at school, if you lack curiosity and perseverance you may not be very “bright”. Those who get the Fs will struggle; those who get the As may follow a safe, well-trodden career path while never setting the world alight.
The truly “bright” will achieve either way - whether that be on a grand scale or a more localised one.

Most kids are average.

Most kids are average.

Indeed. Children who achieve well or to a general standard are ‘able’ or what you might describe as ‘average’.
And from what I can gather here, ‘bright’ means struggling at school. It seems to be somewhat of a sticking plaster word.

All children have skills and abilities we should celebrate, especially as parents. I know I think my DD is super bright, but I know in reality that she is just a bit brighter than average with my DS being a bit less bright than average.
Most children cluster around the average, that is what an average is.

Fgs what is the matter with people on here 🤣

"Well done son on learning to ride your bike/learning to swim/winning star of the week you're really average" (said no parent ever).

We all think our children are bright, because most of them are in one way or another.

We need to say to our children that they are brilliant, clever, etc. But we do them no favours if we encourage them when very young to think they are geniuses. I am speaking from experience. I still remember the crushing disappointment at about 7 when it dawned on me that I was not a genius, just above average at schoolwork.
And all the research says we need to praise effort most.

When I hear ‘bright’ I tend to think of children who are a bit ‘sparky’, if that makes sense. So eloquent, chatty, perceptive, inquisitive. The sort of person that you can have an interesting conversation with. I would say that lots of ‘bright’ people are academically able, but not all academically able people are bright.

"Well done son on learning to ride your bike/learning to swim/winning star of the week you're really average" (said no parent ever).

But what you say to your children and what you think are two different things. If my DS poos in the toilet (potty training has been a struggle) I will say ‘well done, clever boy’ - that doesn’t mean I’m under any illusion of going to the toilet being a ‘clever’ thing.

DS is dyslexic and dyspraxic, he is in year two and can’t read or write. If he isn’t reminded of things (like shapes, colours etc) weekly, he forgets the information and I have to teach him again. But if you ask him about sharks, he can tell you all their names, what they eat, where they live etc. same with dinosaurs, tractors etc. if he’s interested in it, he’s a genius, but he does badly at school because of the first parts

Hopefully most people will be praising and encouraging effort and other qualities.

Being naturally gifted means nothing if you can't be bothered to apply it to anything. That's why there's more than one way to be clever.

The people who really seem to believe that their children are geniuses simply because they are ever so slightly above average are the annoying ones in my opinion. But I didn't get the impression that was what the op was talking about.

I nanny for a little one who doesn't do so well academically. He does try hard but struggles with maths and English etc. However he builds the most amazing contraptions and designs fantastic dens. I think he's very clever to come up with all that stuff!

It's a bit of a sneery and dull outlook on life, isn't it?

@FatEaredFuck and anyone else who might find this helpful:

www.chace.ac.uk assessed, and my son now has a package of several kinds of different software, targeting different issues.

The two I referred to here are:

www.inspiration-at.com is the mind-mapping and sequencing.

www.nuance.com/en-gb/dragon/business-solutions/dragon-professional-individual.html is the scribing software.

Chace usually work for universities, assessing students for their access arrangements, but with kids with high and complex needs, and needing scaffolding to enable them to access their potential, all I can say is that they did a great job. It was really helpful.

Agreeing with @HolidaysAreComingIsh One of our children is VERY severely dyslexic but has a measured IQ of well over 140. He will be 9 in November but can still barely write or spell at all. He can now read reasonably well having been taught from the beginning 3 times before he was able to get past 3 letter words.

@perfectstorm thank you for those links - very useful! ☺️

@urrrgh46 yours sounds like an older version of mine :) im very lucky his school is understanding and helps him out, so he loves it still!

This child sounds absolutely typical of an intelligent kid with ADHD - hyperactivity is not always an obvious component (but lack of impulse control in understanding when it's appropriate to join in with a conversation/discussion for example can be how it manifests).

My DH was uninterested in his (crap, sink) school and did what he needed to get the 5 O-levels at grade C to get a an office junior role at an accountancy firm. He isn’t academic but is brilliant. As an adult his IQ was measured at 158 and he has been very successful in business starting with nothing. His family was very poor and nobody in his large family had education
beyond the age of 16.

His older cousin says he was “always bright”, his reading age was apparently very advanced.

I was bright but also academic so I have the conventional gongs people expect. I couldn’t have got them without being bright but their absence doesn’t reliably signify someone isn’t bright.

I would say that my son is bright he is 7. He has a reading age of 10y and 4 months and a spelling age of 10y and 6 months. He normally had spelling test on a Friday and he never used to revise and he always got them all right. His teachers have told us nemerous times he is very clever and achieving level 3 in some subjects which he he should be achieving till year 6.

I was the bane of my poor teachers' lives as a child - always "just so" scraping by at the level I needed (just barely good enough to get into a selective school - but not one iota better), and eventually dropped out. And I was tested as having an IQ in the top 0.5 percent aged 17.

I ended up talking my way into being accepted by a university despite never having finished school, and I did reasonably alright there but not spectacularly so (2:1).

I've been doing spectacularly well since also talking my way into a graduate scheme that would typically hire from much better universities.

Truth be told, I just hated school! No, that's an understatement: I absolutely despised it and was utterly miserable to the extent that, even as a teen, I'd sob myself to sleep at the thought of having to go there in the morning. I liked English, Biology, and Latin and excelled at all three. And I'd refuse to lift a finger for any other subjects. But I'd spend a lot of time and effort on calculating exactly how bad I could afford to be at what and on which tests/assignments to still just barely pass.

Looking back, my heart sort of breaks for that desperately unhappy little girl I used to be! I grew up in a farming village where sporting prowess was everything and any sort of interest in anything vaguely intellectual was ridiculed - especially in a girl!

I was a "bright" kid who refused to do well at school because it would have cost me the little social acceptance I enjoyed! And I wasn't the only one!

Mine was a happy ending - but there was that one girl, Gemma, two years ahead of me who was very similar. Extremely capable academically, not from the sort of village or the sort of family that was "meant to be" academic. She dropped out, too. I meet her sometimes; she works at one of the shops in the village and is married to one of the farmers. I hope she's happy - but I can't help but think what a waste of potential.

My son isnt academic and when i say bright, i mean curious plus he is able to problem solve and improve from his start point.
I do think a lot of academic is about memory and processess and less aboutincremental improvements and finding solutions.

I really hope that, as his teacher, you're investigating just why 'he can't be arsed'. Y5 is so young to be dismissed as lazy! There are other possible reasons why he may be presenting like this.

I had a pupil turn up in my class , who after 7 years of primary education, had not had her dyslexia diagnosed. She had been classed as lazy, uncooperative, not interested. No one had noticed the disparity between her written work and her verbal responses or her distress at not coping.
There really is a case for screening every child for reading disorders when they come to secondary school.