Children who are bright/clever

[HeartofAss]

I see this sort of thing quite often: in parenting groups, parents will say something like: "My child is not achieving academically at school, but he is very clever" or "My daughter is struggling at school. She's really bright but she's behind in all her subjects"

I always wonder, what does the parent mean by 'bright'? Or, if the child is not achieving at school, how does the parent know that they are 'clever'? What is it that the child does (at home) to indicate that they are a particularly clever or bright child?

Just curious really, about how we use language and what people mean when they use these descriptions. And what people think indicates being bright/clever if it isn't traditional things like being good at maths/writing etc

Critical thinking skills.

I’m dyslexic, my logic and problem solving ability is often remarked on.

One of mine was 'bright and clever' - in primary school he gave nothing and they had no idea what level he was at. Turns out he is quite the academic who settled into high school and left with 5 Highers, all As, in S5. Currently he is at university (lives with me) and has aced his first year. We knew he was clever. His autism formed a huge barrier when he was young.

I work with kids as part of my work. Often we have children who are exceptionally bright - they pick up new things very fast, understand how things work and how to do things very quickly, have a tremendous capability for storing information - but it's usually that they're being ignored or not challenged at school so they become lazy (?) with their school and academic work.

EG, one of the kids I work with is unbelievably good at maths. She's 10, but could probably sit a GCSE maths paper and get a level 8 next summer. However, the school she was at was pretty hopeless and never challenged her, so she struggled academically as she basically lost interest. In year 4 they were doing the work I'd expect a year 1 or 2 student to be doing, and so she just mentally checked out. So now she's behind with her work.

I hope this clarifies what people tend to mean when they say comments such as this?

Yes I think so. They're rather pointless words really.

A lot of people are so amazed by the very normal things that the little human they created is doing that they assume their child is bright without having any real knowledge of what children should be capable of beyond the basic baby/toddler milestones.

DS has SPD and suspected Dyspraxia and/or ADHD (assessments ongoing). He is academically far behind. In maths, that's because he's bad at maths, struggles to understand the concepts and I see no reason to believe that will change - he is NOT "maths smart". But he is generally quite clever in different ways - he has high levels of common sense, excellent problem solving skills and is far more self aware and emotionally intuitive than most children his age (confirmed not just by me as his adoring mother, but by teachers, educational psychologist etc).

My school reports consistently referenced the fact that if I applied myself I could do better - I catch on to things very quickly, understand the "big picture" easily but struggle with detail and have a terrible memory. I genuinely don't know what could have been done differently for me at school but I do know that my intelligence (and future career success) was not reflected in my marks at school. Interestingly, at university, where I did an arts degree, I was notable for getting consistently high (but not stupidly high) marks for any and all essays (with very little variation which, certainly in my courses, was unusual - most students tended to do better with certain areas) but tended to struggle more in exams. I understand more now that this is because I do have the ability to see the big picture, have a very logical and linear mind and can make cogent arguments, but my terrible memory means I am not good in exams.

My children are bright and clever as evidenced by their grades, reading ability and constant questioning. They are 6 and 8.

Youngest is top of his year class for reading and phonics. He constantly asks questions and sets himself challenges, he was writing his own algebra questions yesterday and made a Lego model with several functions.

My eldest is top of his class in arithmetic and has read over 70 chapter books since Christmas. He enjoys investigating the science of magnets and electricity, and understands Big Bang theory. He's working at 'deeper level' in creative writing. He also has a good understanding of various mechanisms demonstrating in his Lego building.

I'm really proud of them and I feel justified in saying they are bright.

I have read (and based on my own experience I’d say it’s true) that the vast majority of children have a roughly similar IQ. A small minority really are ‘bright’ and a small minority really are dim, but the vast majority are bunched up in the middle. So when you hear these awful people at dinner parties saying “we had to send Toby to a private school...he’s very bright, you know, and we were worried he’d get bored in mainstream education” etc, the chances are they’re talking rubbish. Most parents think their children are exceptionally bright or gifted. Nine times out of ten they aren’t.

Watch University Challenge this year. It’s a good example. I guarantee you there will be a handful of brilliant students who get their team to the semis or the finals almost single handed. Every year it’s the same - one or two exceptional students who could easily beat most other teams on their own.

Our top universities are stuffed with average students who only got there because their parents pushed them, hired private tutors, etc, and because the kids worked hard.

Also, IQ is hard to pin down. Often, a kid will excel at one thing but be hopeless at another. My brother has an MA in literature, has read all of Shakespeare’s plays, can talk for hours about art and poetry, etc, but is hopeless at the STEM subjects. He admits it himself (he can barely use a laptop). In fact, he often says that most ten year olds would beat him in a maths’ or physics’ exam.

My son has a lot of complex SEN but is incredibly bright, has a great memory and understands complex problems and creates innovative solutions.

He is unable/incapable of doing written work or concentrating on things on things he doesnt enjoy. His SEN means he can be a distraction in the class or painful to teach.

As part of getting him decent support he was cognitively tested as part of his dyslexia test. He scored very very high for his IQ, problem solving, verbal reasoning etc. His working memory is poor and his dyslexia causes him problems with writing.

At primary school age "academically bright " often means - site nicely 8 hours a day, works well, writes well, reads above average, helps others. My son is bright but not academic.

I think as a parent (and teacher) it can be frustrating when a child clearly IS smart - eg will chat away about a subject or understand something quickly and easily - but doesn't do well at school for whatever reason.

DS has a surprisingly good vocabulary (surprising as he is NOT a reader). This is confirmed by teachers and other specialists. And yet I was amazed by how difficult it is for him to come up with synonyms and antonyms when he was doing those in his English homework. He understands the word, can describe it, use it in a sentence etc - but cannot come up with an alternative. I am told this is due to his poor executive functioning which includes any and all types of organisation including, in this case, the way he organises words/meanings in his head. It is frustrating because he is "smart" in his understanding of language but cannot do this seemingly simple task.

I’m a parent and therefore I’m definitely biased but here are my reasons…!

My 10 yr old son can’t write particularly well, nor spell for toffee but has an iq of 140, reading comprehension of someone twice his age, high knowledge of specialist areas and is an excellent conversationalist. I think he’s bright. My other boy gets excellent grades, top scores in maths, but can’t do any of those other things. I also think he’s bright!

I hope we can consider what it is about a particular child that is bright/engaged or engaging, nurture it and give them confidence. So what if all kids get told they’re bright, it’s fine, no?

I worked with a little boy who was very clever, had a massive vocabulary and really mature understaning of all sorts of subject.s But because he was dyslexic, he was very behind in reaidng and writing.

DS2 was in the 'remedial' set for pretty much everything at primary. He was undiagnosed autistic and masking normality in a very unsupportive environment took every drop of concentration he had, leaving none for learning. At home, more relaxed, he was very bright. He sat exams for a very high-achieving secondary school and passed them, but if you'd believed his not very good primary, he was below average. He's now on the way to getting a first from a very good uni.

Yes, many parents are in denial and think that because their child was forward at 9 months, or did something amazing in reception, they’re a genius for life!

Many parents also have no idea just how incredibly high the standards are for primary school children.

I’ve had children who have always had SEN support, yet their parents have been ‘blown away’ by their ‘amazing’ maths abilities - when in reality, they’re are working 1-2 years below their age expected standard! Quite a tricky conversation at parents evening!

Many ways that a child shows themselves quick to learn, good at complex problem solving and strategy, creative, good at language etc etc.

Many ways for this not to translate to passing the right milestones in a classroom setting. Personality, emotional issues, neurodivergency, MH, social issues.

Parents often say it because teachers have confirmed it.

Both my teens have friends who are not academic and don’t achieve good grades but are bright to talk to helpful and capable. Recently took an overseas trip with Dd and 5 friends and the not academic one was definitely the one I would employ if I were an employer. Capable in a crisis calm and useful frankly unlike the academically bright neurotic panicky ones.

Yes, I’ve rarely met a parent who doesn’t describe their child as bright. The gifted and talented board on here is full of threads started by someone who suspects that their fairly young baby or toddler is gifted.

My DD is very bright. My DS less so.
A friend once had a right go at me when I said this when he was a toddler, but it is true. He is lovely and has many fine qualities, but he is not that bright.

I think it’s usually when children are very verbal and astute generally but aren’t great academically. My dd has an extensive vocabulary, fantastic memory and can argue me into the ground. Nothing gets past her. Although she’s academically probably doing pretty well, she’s not as brilliant as her persona might suggest.

I mean this politely: have you ever been assessed for ADHD? Because what you describe is textbook, and if you have it, there are meds available which work in 75% of cases.

No, not everyone can 'develop a good work ethic' and 'learn to do things they find boring'. By diagnostic definition, many people with ADHD can't. If they could, then they wouldn't have that form of ADHD.

You say anyone can do it, and then continue to say that you haven't. You are therefore blaming yourself for an inability, and making it a choice, and that, too, is normal for adult ADHD women, who live with a lot of shame which they've had ladled on all their school lives.

I was brilliant at exams. Aced them. Couldn't do coursework at all because I procrastinated, left it to the last minute, then handed mediocre work in. Exams, and I was terrified into doing intensive, hyper focused revision and excelled as a result. Nicely tight deadlines, very clear-cut. And I was able to do nothing but obsess about the exams and revision in the run-up which meant I could work harder than anyone for that short burst. Sadly, teachers assumed that hyper focused, Herculean effort was what I was capable when I tried and that if I wanted I could do it all year around - so I was labelled as lazy. I wasn't; nobody could work at that pitch all the time. I just have ADHD.

Coding - are you able to focus to the exclusion of all else, because it seems engrossing? If so, that's hyper-focus, and also common with ADHD.

Genuinely, I would explore it. If you do have it, there is effective medication. I was diagnosed as an adult and that was why I moved hell and high water to ensure my daughter was diagnosed as a child. Her meds, and mine, were life altering.

I think bright is used today to mean ‘not thick’ so I guess these parents just think if the child hit its milestones and is curious and interested in the world, then they ought to do OK in school.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence, and you might be brilliant at making furniture/running a used car business/doing stand-up while being useless at school. Sometimes LDs like ASD and ADHD are part of the problem and sometimes they aren’t.

But also a lot of kids that are ‘bright’ in their parents eyes are bog average in reality.

Sometimes a child can be dyslexic and struggle at school whilst having a high IQ and being very articulate and inventive.

Well put.

My dad was incredibly bright but left school without a qualification to his name. Throughout his life he was creative and resourceful in all sorts of ways but really slapdash - getting things done was preferable to any level of quality. I suspect this would have been how he tackled school work too.

@perfectstorm

This is v much me. And I have started to wonder.. can I ask how you went about getting a diagnoses, whether you went private, and any resources that were helpful?

I think I have been putting it off because the idea that I’ve lived with this well into mid life, when it could have been fixed is quite horrifying, but I know I’m not alone.

Clever is more than just working to the sats, sitting still and doing what teacher wants at just above the national level could be described as 'clever'.

Some parents think their children are super clever but not showing it because difficult perhaps for them to assume they might not be.