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Grooming gangs/child sexual exploitation - was it going on in your area in the 80s/90s/00s? Did you realise?

201 replies

WhichBitchIsWhich · 17/07/2022 12:20

Prompted by another thread about the Telford sex abuse scandal, I'm wondering how widespread this really was (and maybe still is but today's teenagers aren't likely to be on MN to answer).

I grew up in a small Midlands town and was at secondary school between 1993 and 1997.

It was definitely going on there at the time, though I've only realised the scale and true extent of it in retrospect.

Girls (working class white girls, to be specific) from our school would regularly meet adult men who they called their boyfriends outside the gates at lunchtime and "go for a drive" in their cars, coming back with a McDonald's a while later. They were often collected at the end of the day by the same men. Some of us recognised this as abuse (or at least as not okay). I remember discussing it with friends a few times as a teenager and we certainly knew these men were not "boyfriends" as the girls involved said. It certainly wasn't a secret, the staff knew about it and watched it happen but said or did nothing (I assume, as it carried on year after year).

Most upsetting to me was a deaf girl with learning disabilities who was in my form group, who lived in a local authority children's home in the next town over. She was pregnant at 15 and I still remember someone asking her in class who the father was and her replying "just some fucking [racist four letter word beginning with p and ending with i]" (apologies for even hunting at the word but it's what she said). She didn't come back to school after she reached about 6 months pregnant and I heard from another girl who had lived in the same "care" home that she didn't get to keep her baby.

I realise now as an adult what was almost certainly happening to her Sad

OP posts:
BangingOn · 17/07/2022 18:40

I was oblivious to it, I’m not sure whether it went on in my affluent SE home town but it may have done. I went to a boarding school where I knew of at least one teacher pupil relationship, the teacher wasn’t prosecuted as the pupil was over 16. Recently, several teachers have been jailed for abusing both boys and girls during my time at school. including that teacher who was convicted of raping a different girl.

badgerbognor · 17/07/2022 18:48

Fact is, they didn't give a shit because it was teenage girls doing what they believed was what teenage girls did. They weren't trying to 'not be racist', if anything, they looked down on those girls even more because they were 'with' non white men

Were misogynistic and class based issues a factor, in terms of 'these type of girls?' Yes. Were stupid 'progressive' attitudes which called these girls' child prostitutes (i.e. they had agency over their behaviour and were making choices) a factor. Yes.

But were fears of being called a racist a factor? Also yes. This was not just a failure of the police, but of multiple agencies, including social services. The reporter who broke the story was told before he published not to do it as he would be called a racist. I remember the Guardian reporting at the time of the Rotherham scandal breaking, and their articles were more keen to avoid the accusation of racism (falling over themselves to try to break any connection between the abuse and the race of the men committing it) than to centre the tortured girls. Jeremy Corbyn slapped down one of his female MPs for talking about the problem in her area for fear of his party being accused of racism. It is undeniable that even those speaking about his after the fact are terrified of being called racist, so please lets not pretend that those at the time, across agencies, were not afraid of this too. I can't help thinking that those wishing to pretend fear of being called a racist was NOT a factor, are themselves, centring their need to be seen as Not Racist, by trying to deny the race/ culture based influence in this particular abuse.

I repeat. If we deny this, we cannot develop effective strategies to address this and that means girls we continue to be abused.

Burnbookregina · 17/07/2022 19:13

So something like this happened to me, i always have looked very young and met a guy outside a nightclub, he was nice to me said all the right things. We swapped numbers and he started calling himself my boyfriend. He said he was in the army Stationed away. A couple of weeks later he txt and called asking me to meet up, i agreed and met him in a bar with his friend who had a bmw, they started buying me drinks and getting me drunk, then suggested we went for food and took me to a kebab shop. Got some food and then they took me to a cricket ground and the two of them bith wanted sexual favours from me. I did it as i was scared at that point. They then drove me all round the place and eventually took me to meet another friend of theirs, they said they wouldnt take me home but their friend could if i did another favour for him. I just wanted to get home so did as they asked and got the other one to give me a ride home. He even got me to give him fuel money to take me home. We were pulled over by the police on the way back as he had a light out, i so wish id got out the car when they were there but again i was scared, i lied about his friend being my boyfriend and i made him drop me a little way from home so he didnt know where i lived. I then kept getting calls from all their friends asking me to meet them ans changed my phone number in the end.

ive never told this story before and it happened in 2005 but i remember it like it was yesterday. I feel so bad for every young girl or boy it has happened to. Ive never reported it or told anyone, i think im lucky to have only had it happen that time. Sorry if ive gone into too much detail with my account. Its so shocking that it happens, i never thought something like that would happen to me

Iliveonahill · 17/07/2022 19:16

It’s men. However is it the case that white men who groom operate on their own whilst the grooming that has has happened in cities by Pakistani men Is gang based? Girls are passed around. Here it is religious and cultural. White girls were / are seen as easy, trash. It all needs labelling. It happened at my school in the late 1970s. Why did no-one intervene then? Because the girls were seen as cheap. It was very different then. Girls did not have the sexual freedom then that we have now. My father told me I would be cheap if I had sex before marriage. That was the culture. It’s different now. There are no excuses. Every person in the public sector is trained on child protection, grooming etc.

Nad99 · 17/07/2022 19:26

I dont usually post but feel very strongly about this as a high schooler in the 90s in yorkshire this happened to asian girls as well just much more undercover. It was seen as normal to go out at with 30-35 year old with a flash car n get gifts etc n these girls were seen as tarts by the teachers n staff, n the worse thing was the men often knew the girls families so used that as a form of control and to keep everythng hidden.
1 guy that used to regularly hang around near the school streets had a daughter a few years younger than us.
I also had a friend that couldnt get rid of her 35 year old boyfriend and he regularly threatened to turn up at her house and tell her family, eventually she got rid on the condition she introduce another willing school girl to him (hes now in prison for a long time for smthng else).

And now im horrified that we all thought this was so normal and girls more scared of the cultural backlash than their own safety.

EllieQ · 17/07/2022 19:45

thenightsky · 17/07/2022 18:10

I'm from West Yorkshire and this was going on as early as the 70s. I was at secondary school from 76 and remember girls being picked up at 4pm by much older boyfriends in flash cars. When we were 6th form age we used to get into nightclubs in Bradford, Leeds and Keighley underage and saw it all going on then too. Local MP, Anne Cryer, tried to bring it into the open and tackle it, but was discredited by the far right and the police, sadly.

I’ve heard about Anne Cryer trying to raise the issue in the 90s (relatives living in the area mentioned it), and nothing being done because of accusations of racism. I’m also sure I remember an article in the Guardian in the mid-late 90s about grooming in Bradford, with an interview with one of the girls involved (she’d got pregnant and her Pakistani Asian boyfriend got his mum to take the baby and look after it), but I’ve never found it online.

Personally, I did not experience this at secondary school in the early 90s (north west town). I remember a couple of girls in my class having older boyfriends in Year 10/11, but they were 15/16 and the boyfriends were 18-20, so not such an age gap as other people have mentioned.

But I was quite naive and sheltered, and there were a couple of the ‘tough’ girls who spoke about having sex at age 13. At the time I felt immature (as a geeky, awkward girl), but I now wonder what was going on there.

Findingmypast · 17/07/2022 19:51

Dont read further if sensitive.

At 8 I'd experienced SA from a policeman who'd discovered how we lived and blackmailed me. Two years on my mother died and I was sent away to the posh half side of my 'family.' As a 'bastard' I didn't do well. Mentioning what had happened to me was considered scandalous and I assume untrue.

Mid 1970's 5 years on, 13 un-trendy, I was tricked by a 'sophisticated' 14 yr old with an invite to a party. I dressed up for it excitedly.

She wasn't there, just her adult boyfriend and his dodgier friends who where part of a gang, in a filthy hotel basement. Once I discovered I couldn't beg and plead my way out of it, and this was happening, I drank most of a proffered half bottle of vodka neat for courage.

My guardian reported me missing when I didn't return that night, and I was rescued from round 2 in the morning covered in vomit with ripped clothing. Police took me home, and my guardian took my clothes while they where there. Guardian responded to whatever they'd been told by informing me that "no decent girl enters a mans bedroom."
I understood it was all my fault, but was confused when then nothing happened.

I later found out that guardian considered the girl who tricked me to be "from a good family" and my illegitimacy made damage to me of lower worth. But the police?

However my guardian decided to now share guardianship with a parks police officer, who swiftly moved into predatiion.

Three months later I was with a group of what I thought where friends and around 10 others, and two of the men who'd raped me turned up. Pulled out of the room forcibly and struggling, by one of them, and raped next door.. No one tried to stop them, no one said anything. Later I found out that once you'd been raped by them, everyone knew and you where considered 'turned out' and their property by everyone. Everyone knew. Most of 'their girls' became their sometimes prostituted girlfriends, and the rest where just prostituted and generally abused.

I didn't go out after that, putting me iat the mercy of my guardian, and I was soon pregnant. Social services basically gave me a choice of forced adoption
or marry him when old enough.

My male social worker lead me to believe he might have a third option, but it soon turned out to be just an attempt at coercive sexual access.

Husband later tried to use me to pay off a drugs debt to the gang who'd raped me, and also encouraged his older colleagues to try their luck. They at least backed off when they realized force was required.

That gang operated in the open, which is how the police where easily able to find me when I was missing, and my guardian also operated openly, not only with me, but other girls subsequently. Everyone knew.

We were commodities, and tragically so where our children.

Later I saw first hand what happened in the care system and the disinterest in stopping these men. Everyone knew.

I've written all this because the point is, it isn't a specific group, or race of men, or a time, or a place, it's a type of man and a society that blames and shames their vulnerable victims, and sometimes some politics thrown into the mix and when it is taking place, everyone around it knows.

HobnobsChoice · 17/07/2022 19:53

I grew up in Rochdale so yes it was happening and yes everyone knew. I remember one girl at school who had a 40 year old "boyfriend" it was quite widely known but nobody ever said "why is a 40 year old interested in a 15 year old".

PixellatedPixie · 17/07/2022 20:00

He had already told his mum. I don’t think the abuser was ever charged. So sad.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/07/2022 20:05

Iliveonahill · 17/07/2022 19:16

It’s men. However is it the case that white men who groom operate on their own whilst the grooming that has has happened in cities by Pakistani men Is gang based? Girls are passed around. Here it is religious and cultural. White girls were / are seen as easy, trash. It all needs labelling. It happened at my school in the late 1970s. Why did no-one intervene then? Because the girls were seen as cheap. It was very different then. Girls did not have the sexual freedom then that we have now. My father told me I would be cheap if I had sex before marriage. That was the culture. It’s different now. There are no excuses. Every person in the public sector is trained on child protection, grooming etc.

Nah. They've got networks, too. In the 80s, over CB radio was a version (worked in a unit where some of the inhabitants had been picked up by other operators realising what they were talking about).

Sneezesthrice · 17/07/2022 20:07

I went to school in SW London. Some of the girls were involved with the blokes who drove the single decker buses they got home from school. One of them got pregnant and had a termination. I remember thinking it was weird blokes that age wanting to shag 14-15 year olds.

Chattycathydoll · 17/07/2022 20:14

NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/07/2022 20:05

Nah. They've got networks, too. In the 80s, over CB radio was a version (worked in a unit where some of the inhabitants had been picked up by other operators realising what they were talking about).

On the talkers/early Internet forums too.

Stillfunny · 17/07/2022 20:37

This was so common that the film " Rita Sue and Bob Too " portrayed exactly this. I saw it in the 80s , but not in UK . It was viewed as a "comedy" by many . Perfectly fun times to be had singing We're having a Gang Bang at a Working Man's Club. One character did have a relationship with an Asian youth where she was viewed as poor white trash and therefore deserved to be physically abused .
I was absolutely shocked as I could not believe that it was promoted as a comedic look at British life.
To now hear that it was very common and widespread throughout and so very under reported or condemned is so very sad. So many vulnerable girls lives ruined .

Chipsahoy · 17/07/2022 20:44

WhichBitchIsWhich · 17/07/2022 12:33

That's two of us in the Midlands who know for sure it was going on there. I don't remember seeing a case in the news from my specific area (yet).

I was in the midlands and a victim. Spent 12 years in therapy so far trying to process and move on. Though the trauma of the blame and shame and no one believing me has been the killer. It’s torn my family apart.
I am fortunate to have a lovely life now..But I will always be healing. It is a way of life for me now. I doubt I’ll work again. I doubt I’ll ever function as I did when I was trying to pretend it didn’t happen. Breaking down years later and realising that healing isn’t going back to coping but finding a new way to live.

I have a new way to live. Gently. Slowly. On my land. With my husband and children. Doing crafts. Doing gardening. Yoga. Medication. You don’t ever get over it. You have to learn to live with it. It was horrific.

This is all disjointed I realised. It’s a tough subject.

Micemice · 17/07/2022 20:51

Yea , secondary school 1990’s , happened at my school- particular few girls which now on hindsight were so so vulnerable- a girl been left in care of her granny while her parents work away, another parents alcoholics, another mother very unwell - father off the scene. Anyway they had the “ older boyfriend” got given clothes/ money etc collected in cars etc. At the time I remember thinking those girls were so cool to have boyfriend ( when I was 12/13) then one pregnant dropped out, another always looked so so unwell - pale lethargic etc and always depressed. I moved away from the area and heard a few year ago how in all came out in the news and big safeguarding investigation, the three girls I recall all allowed their names to be published to encourage others to come forward. So horrific reading about the abuse they suffered, sex every single day- groomed and controlled . All thought they were complicit so couldn’t report etc. One abuser even had a bed installed in the back of a van . One thing that hit me to hard was thinking gosh why did we not recognise this was abuse and flag to our teachers? Because we got no education on abuse/ cse etc ever. Never encourage to share concerns, no warning signs taught etc. Also if classmates could spot signs surely teachers could who hopefully would have been trained in safeguarding?? Makes me feel so guilty knowing these girls so close to me went through this.

makes me passionate now in my role working with those who have experienced abuse and also educating on the warning signs to schools ages children. It’s never ever too early to talk these things through with kids in an age appropriate way.

BananaBlue · 17/07/2022 20:52

💐to all of you who have suffered.

I went to a RC sch in east London and we’d have men asking for business outside our gates.

looking back there were at least 3 girls I can think of who with hindsight were groomed and abused.

I also wanted to highlight this film from 97 staring Brooke Kinsella. True story and I’ve been haunted by it to this day.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_of_Mine

Micemice · 17/07/2022 20:59

@Findingmypast I am so sorry this happened to you. This was not the childhood you deserved and I’m sorry those who should have cared and protected you did not xx hoping you have happiness in life now xx

SweetSakura · 17/07/2022 21:05

I've written all this because the point is, it isn't a specific group, or race of men, or a time, or a place, it's a type of man and a society that blames and shames their vulnerable victims, and sometimes some politics thrown into the mix and when it is taking place, everyone around it knows.

Exactly. Networks of power,. corruption, misogyny and paedophilia. Only possible because alongside the perpetrators are lots of other people who look the other way.

In the 90s I experienced constant harassment and sexual assault from my (white) swim coach. The other coaches just giggled /looked the other way. All the girls experienced it. I guess all of us were too embarrassed/ashamed to tell our parents

SweetSakura · 17/07/2022 21:10

I also remember volunteering to help with a social services holiday camp and it became abundantly clear that one of the male social workers was spending a lot of inappropriate time with a boy with learning disabilities. I reported it at a very high level (thanks to a family member who knew who I could speak to) but it was clear everyone else on the trip (at least 6 other social workers) was just pretending they couldn't see what was happening.

What's particularly monstrous with Rotherham/Telford (and many others - eg Bradford etc) is the huge community networks of power, corruption, coercion that were frustrating the attempts of whistleblowers and facilitating this on such a widespread and blatant scale

Mefuckingtoo · 17/07/2022 22:00

North east of England in the 90’s. BF was 27. He used to get me to get my friends to come out to hotels with his friends during the school day. I thought we were being grown up. My parents were aware. Got heavily in to drugs. Got pregnant and had a termination. Flunked my GCSE’s.

It only got me emotionally when I got to age he was when he started ‘seeing’ me. I felt a million miles away from fifteen year olds and saw them as kids.
Therapy has helped. I carry a lot of shame over the whole thing. Teachers were aware and expressed concern but at the time there weren’t the mechanisms to try to put a stop to it or make us aware it was wrong. I’m angry with my mum for not protecting me.

Dinoteeth · 17/07/2022 23:17

@Mefuckingtoo I'm sorry you went through that.

converseandjeans · 17/07/2022 23:43

Cyril Smith was another Rochdale case & it seems loads of people knew he was an abuser but chose to ignore it. He targeted children in care homes with nobody to stick up for them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Smith

MaxOverTheMoon · 18/07/2022 07:21

Julian Moran was part of a white pedophile gang in the 70s. He was finally charged at 81. He groomed young boys and made magazines with images took and when one of the abused boys told the police about it the police told him that they would charge him as he was then 15 - the abuse started at 11. Awful vile people and it really isn't a non white issue. White british men are pedophiles too. www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-37525196.amp

lot123 · 18/07/2022 07:21

My sister in law came to the U.K. from Pakistan when she was 13. She had her first child at 13 in the U.K. and had three by the time she was 16. Her husband (not my brother) managed to get her passport to show her as 5 years' older.

I know that girls can look deceptively old for their age but, for whatever reason, nobody questioned it. She's lived in the U.K. for over 40 years but can't read or write, nor can she speak good English. It makes it really hard for her to get a decently paid job or any type of financial independence.

I'm sure she's by no means the only one and it makes me cross that no one was advocating for her rights to have a childhood and an education like the rest of us.

StarkintheSouth · 18/07/2022 07:39

Yeah I went to school in late 90s and there were girls meeting their boyfriends in their 20s from about 14. These girls were not the pretty, confident and popular girls they were the girls who were perhaps less conventionally attractive, who suffered with self esteem. These men were all were white and just gave off an air of creepy desperation. I remember thinking can you not attract women your own age?!! Just really sad. I’m also from Rotherham and knew friends of friends who got involved with the Asian gangs.
as a previous poster has said, it’s men in general, not one particular group. And it’s gross. If adults knew about it, they turned a blind eye.

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