What age to swim in a lake with friends?

[DolphinAspirations]

What age would you be happy for your DD to swim in a lake with no adult supervision? It would be with friends of the same age in scotland. Mine has swum in a lake a couple of times with me but that’s all. She can swim at a medium sort of level.

We are having a difference of opinion.

RNLI on cold water shock here and here

Cold water shock occurs in water colder than 15 degrees. Even in hot weather, most water around the UK and Ireland is likely to be colder than that.

We are a town based around a river and every year teenagers go swimming in it.

Every year at least one teen dies. Every year

It would depend on a number of factors - which lake? Is it a designated swimming spot? Who is in the group?...

I grew up near the coast, and swim in the sea when I can, including off Scotland. I've also done a fair bit of swimming in rivers. I started lifesaving classes when I was 13, have been a swimming teacher and spent time with beach lifeguards (though mostly only worked at pools.) My mother was also a lifeguard and swimming teacher. She made sure we could swim and knew about open water risks because there was a lot of open water around. I was about 14 when we were allowed to the beach alone (a lifeguarded beach,) and part of that was because we had been educated to assess risks, were strong swimmers, had had training in water rescue (not the same as doing it for real, though,) and there would be lots of others around. Also, we knew the beach, how you can get cold spots and so on. We also ayed in the river on the farm a lot, and I can still tell you which bits are deeper, faster - we knew that stretch really well.

I don't know your daughter or the lake to be able to assess it, but my instincts would be towards no. And if nothing else will convince her, has she ever seen a pike? That's what makes me most nervous of lake swimming, even though I realise it's not actually the biggest risk there, and I'd be lucky to see one - but they look nasty, that toothy jaw jutting out...

Not a good idea! Every time we have hot weather ,there seem to be some sort of drowning incidents at lakes/reservoirs or other! Its really not worth it .Maybe a trip to the beach ? a local lido .These have lifeguards on hand .Lakes are freezing and cold water shock is a killer

I think this is what happened to my friend who drowned. I couldn't understand it because the week before a boy drowned and he said you'd have to be crazy as you'd get hypothermia in seconds.

But it was the hottest day of the year and in reality despite being usually sensible I think he succumbed to peer pressure. The poor boys with him will never get over that, neither will or his other friends, his parents, etc. The loss of a young person is permanently devastating.

Friend of mine drowned in a pool with no lifeguards.

Went for a swim, found lifeless at the bottom.

a pool. No currents, no hidden depths. Possibly cold as it was unheated, but a pool.

he was about as strong a swimmer as you could get. Olympic trials as a teen and all that. Completely healthy, no issues, cause of death drowning.

apparently if you hold your breath too long your drive to breathe can be overridden and you just pass out without realising you need oxygen.

I got attacked by a goose in Lake Ontario once! Luckily geese can’t swim underwater, or if they can this one didn’t seem to want to.

But there are safe, patrolled beaches on Lake Ontario. You don’t go swimming near the sewage outlets or storm drains. It’s not like swimming in a UK reservoir, river or flooded quarry.

Yes - it’s not quite holding your breath for too long. If you hyperventilate you can drive your carbon dioxide levels down. For most people, high carbon dioxide levels are what drive your to breath.

So you hyperventilate, cause low CO2 levels, and then you don’t realise your oxygen levels are falling. Until you black out. Not a problem on dry land, because you will stop holding your breath when you fall unconscious. Massive problem underwater.

This is a massive problem for freedivers, but even normal swimmers who hyperventilate before going underwater (ie take too many deep breaths beforehand) can be affected and black out.

Never. A child has just died in the last few days.

There’s a huge craze for wild swimming. Most people appear to think it life threatening.

It can be. Most "wild swimming" groups etc that I've seen on Facebook seem to consist of people sitting in shallow water at the edge of a lake taking photos of themselves. Actual swimming in Open Water is dangerous and why a lot of even very competent open water swimmers use a tow float.

Let’s all just stay locked in our houses forever then shall we🙄. Suicide is the biggest killer of teens next traffic accidents. Don’t let them drive or cross the road. Super dangerous

My childhood friends brother did just that in 1976. He drowned. Swimming in a lake without responsible supervision is a joy of life until you are dead. Loads of people doing something didn't make it right or sensible. I thought most adults knew that.

Exactly.

Are your figures maybe from 2020; it was higher in 2021.

As a small country we have a lot of bodies of water, nearly 31000, so there are more opportunities to drown oneself. Apparently walkers/ runners are nearly three times more likely to drown than swimmers. People die because they enter the water unprepared.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61803635

Jalisco I grew up in the country and every school year at least one teen was killed in the lanes driving too fast.

Not sure it was a google search, my kids swim school said 39 too, I don't know where either of them got the 39 from but the 277 ties to what Swim England say. 🤔

39 in 2020 and 58 in 2021 accidental water deaths in Scotland. Both figures from the BBC.

Let’s all just stay locked in our houses forever then shall we🙄. Suicide is the biggest killer of teens next traffic accidents. Don’t let them drive or cross the road. Super dangerous

no, teach them to drive safely. No phones, no speeding.

teach them to cross the road safely. Stop, look, listen. In the US FFS crossing the road anywhere but a crossing is illegal!!

suicide is different. But again we can attempt to mitigate by encouraging them to talk, monitoring social media, getting MH services involved.

we don’t just hand our kids the keys to a BMW and say there you go, crack on. Or send a 4 year old off to walk to school and cross roads by themselves before any road safety education.

so why is it ok to let children teens fuck off to the nearest open water where multiple people die every year and think it’s perfectly safe to do so?

honestly these kids who die are not always weak swimmers, and it happens so quickly there is no time to react or save them. One minute they’re there, the next they’re gone and it takes search and rescue hours to find the body.

as for “we’ve always done it”. Yes well there’s plenty of things that were the norm 20 years ago that we’ve changed to decrease the risk of death. Seat belts. When I was a child cars only had front seat seatbelts. Car seats. No one had those either. Putting children to sleep on their back has reduced SIDS. Not smoking, not smoking around children.

it’s not about spoiling the fun, being risk averse or whatever. It’s about educating kids to be safe around water to minimise the risk.

I would never allow it. Certainly not a group of unsupervised teenagers.

I know a lad who went swimming in a lake with a group of friends to celebrate end of medical studies. He hit his head on submerged rocks and ended up paralysed from the neck down.

Proper open water swimming, with equipment and risk assessment is a completely different kettle of fish.

The question here was specifically about swimming in a Scottish loch which are almost all deep and cold. As I said above, we've risk assessed with kids the local areas- eg beach is allowed but the deep cold reservoir where teenager drowned last year is not, most of the river allowed, specific area with deep pool where teenager drowned a few years ago is not etc etc
This link has a picture at the bottom of Loch Lomond which shows just how quickly it drops off from a nice shallow sandy beach into very deep water:
www.clydebankpost.co.uk/news/20184027.water-safety-warnings-new-figures-reveal-58-accidental-deaths-last-year/

I wouldn't recommend at all unless known to be safe. We have a pretty small lake in a country park and a 35 year old died in it a couple of weeks ago. Not sure how well he could swim but it was a very hot day and apparently the lake used to be an old quarry so they think it was very cold water and th e shock of it.

Oh right. That makes being bloody stupid ok then, does it? If something else is more likely to kill teenagers (or anyone else, for that matter) we should all deliberately go out and do the less risky bloody stupid things? I grew up in, and still live in, the country. And yes there are things that teenagers do that get them killed. Sensible and responsible adults don't encourage them to do those things. I suspect that you might feel more passionate about teenagers being encouraged to act sensibly if your child had drowned, or been killed speeding down the lanes?

Hi Dolphin’s DD, would you wear a PFD? We are in Scotland and the DC and I swim in the rivers, lochs and sea regularly.
The DC wear PFDs and we often see teens wearing them too. Sometimes all in the group, sometimes just one or two. My DC are younger so happy to wear but could be a good compromise?

@janeseymour78 I'm so sorry about your friend. As you say, these tragedies also impact on so many other lives.