What age to swim in a lake with friends?

[DolphinAspirations]

What age would you be happy for your DD to swim in a lake with no adult supervision? It would be with friends of the same age in scotland. Mine has swum in a lake a couple of times with me but that’s all. She can swim at a medium sort of level.

We are having a difference of opinion.

Medium sort of swimmer means not a good swimmer I assume? Can do a couple of lengths in a nice warm pool? No chance I’d let my teen in open water unless they were used to cold water, could swim at least a kilometre in one go easily, knew some life saving techniques and I knew the site was safe (eg no submerged plants to get entangled in, no algae, no sewage, no concealed currents etc).

Huge no.
Yes I did it. Yes I'm pretty damn sure my teens did it too, in our local river. However, I, and they were LUCKY, we didn't come to any harm.

But last summer a teen (WITH an adult) drowned in our local lake. My DD2 looked after her when, brain dead and her skin deteriorating in a particularly awful way, she came to die in the hospice where DD2 is a nurse.

I'm sure it's different in countries where the water isn't enexpectedly cold, and everyone has swum since they were tiny, but open water swimming IS different to your local open air pool.

So never.

My son and his mates have been going to the beach since they were about 12 (also Scotland) but there's absolutely no way I'd let him swim in a loch unsupervised. The sea is overall much warmer than lochs, it's a gradual immersion and on our local beach you'd have to swim out a long way to be out of your depth even at high tide, there is no sudden drop off.
We were on holiday near Loch Lomond last year the weekend 7(I think) people died and it's scary how easily it can happen. All parents here get links to the coastguard/RNLI 'float to live' advice and asked to talk to their teens about it at the start of each summer. I'm a fairly strong swimmer but experienced cold water shock canyoning once and really really thought I was going to die.

Never. Strong swimmer here and trained as lifeguard. Have also done open water swimming but in an organised setting where help was accessible. I wouldn't do it.
Lots of people do it and are fine. More than a few are not.

It depends on the lake. But lakes can be very dangerous especially lochs

The sea tends to be shallower, gradual immersion. Easier to get in and out. Clearer and less unknowns underwater. Obviously there are lakes like the above and I wouldn't be averse to teens swimming in them

I have done loads of open water swimming, plenty of lakes/rivers/quarries and sea. But I am an adult and able to risk assess. I have also been a silly teenager who thought they were invincible, and teens swimming in lakes terrifies me!

Nope. I also live in channel islands and the sea is different if it is a gradual getting in at this time of year on a sloping beach it really is very safe. Lakes are VERY cold if deep and the risk of cold water shock even at this time of year is not worth the risk in my view.

www.wildswimming.co.uk/health-safety/

Never. My son is 12 and a very competent competitive Open Water swimmer, qualified for the Nationals just last weekend. I would never let him swim in a lake without adult supervision and that adult supervision would have to be an adult out in a kayak, paddle board etc or at very least with a tow float.

15/16 - my son is 14 and not quite old enough to risk assess. The worry is also that friends are not as sensible, may get into trouble and put my son at risk if he tries to help them.

All the posts on here about people jumping in and never coming up......that is cold water shock and no one should ever swim if they aren't aware of this. No one should jump in when boiling hot.....

Kids need to know all the risks first.

never
And generally I am very relaxed

Absolutely no. Not at all.

Why is she laughing? Drowning isn’t that funny

DD is already jumping in off the pontoon (wearing a bouyancy aid and holding my hand).
People need to stop being alarmist and having sensible conversation with their kids about how to do it safely

if by buoyancy aid you mean arm bands then these are not recommended as they can actually aid drowning. Perhaps look up what is safe before advising others so nonchalantly

No you wouldn't young DD. When you're a parent, I promise you wouldn't! You're not invincible and your mum is right, just read all the posts on this thread. Indeed just this week a boy your age died in a lake near me in Herts. It's not like jumping into a heated pool. Stick your toes in my all means but stick your swimming to a local pool if you can. I hear your frustration but your mum is right and it's because she loves you. Listen to all your Mumsnet aunties 🙃

Never

I wouldn’t let a child swim in open water without an adult present. However I am alarmed by the responses in this thread. I swum in a Loch yesterday. It was lovely. Is it really SO dangerous?

Yes it is a big problem here in Scotland - www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61803635.amp. There's a lack of education and the fact teenagers tend to feel invincible and less risk averse is why it's mostly teens getting into trouble.

There's plenty of evidence of the importance of independence and confidence in the outdoor environment to physical and mental health, as well as the development of intelligence.

And you'll notice that I didn't actually advocate a "let them die" approach. I advocated giving kids lots of education and experiences that are supervised, so that by the time they are older, they'll be able to risk assess and act safely. Which is no different to educating and giving safe experiences for any other risk like crossing the road.

Never ever, it's so dangerous, just this weekend a 14 year old boy drowned in my area.

Nope. And I say this as someone who has swims in lochs all year round.

Teenagers brains are not fully developed and they are simply not able to properly assess the risks the same as adult do, especially when in a group of peers. There were so many preventable tragic deaths in Scottish waters last summer. It doesn't take much for a leisurely swim to go very wrong.

21

I'm an open water swimmer. Always have a tow float. Have gradually acclimatised to colder water and safer, gradual entry.
Always risk assess the area as conditions vary.
Check exit points.
Learn how to read open water and weather.
Be a strong swimmer able to swim for a prolonged period without stopping.
Being appropriately prepared for swimming.

Unless a group of older teenagers were all coached in swimming safely and very strong swimmers, the risks are too high that one person does something daft and puts themselves/ others in danger. The chances of them all having an appropriate background is low, and it doesn't take much for at least one teenager to have a daft moment causing unnecessary risk for themselves/ others.

It's an amazing hobby, but does need taking seriously.

No from me.

No by a buoyancy aid I mean a buoyancy aid (with crotch straps and a big collar), if I'd meant armbands I'd have said armbands.

As others have said, society is becoming excessively risk averse, but also in your case, unable to believe that some people are experienced in the outdoors and capable of introducing our kids into it safely.

You'd be horrified by the average summer that the kids from DD school will be given by their families. My friends DS4 was riding his mum's 17hh horse without a lead rein this week; my NDN DS6 can ski black runs; my friend did her first multipitch mountain rock climb with just her dad age 7 (at 40 my friend is an absolute inspirational women, she is fearless). We (DH and I) took our DD rock climbing for the first time at 2 years old.

The problem with the alarmist attitudes found on this thread is they eventually result in legislation that stops people enjoying the outdoors alone or with their family safely. They also don't keep older children and young adults safe. Teach your kids to be safe in the outdoors, teach them to risk assess, empower them to say 'NO' to their peers and lead their friends to a safer location/idea, but don't think they are going to actually listen to you when, during a rare heatwave, you tell them they can't cool off for free in water when generations before them have done, they are teenagers they won't listen, and if you haven't taken the time when they are younger to prepare them then the consequences are on you.

I am finding this baffling as literally everyone I know is happy that their teen goes river swimming! Seems a lovely thing to do with friends they are hanging out with friends and other teens swinging on rope swings and having picnics. It would be seen as very odd to ban this! Am I living in an alternative universe?!

Are you in the UK @MsTSwift?

While it would be fine if people did grow up cold water swimming and became experienced in how to do it safely, there is a significant problem that people never do it until a hot day where they decide to jump into the nearest lake, river or canal to cool off and sadly some do drown.

If we revisit this thread after the weekend, it's very likely that there will be several people (generally teen boys or young men) who have drowned in the UK due to this.

I think this depends So much on the river.

I have stayed near a river before that was about 5ft deep, totally clear of weeds for decent patches, gravel bottomed. Root branches made it pretty easy to haul oneself out.

People swam in that, used rope swings etc and it didn't make me nervous at all. But that's a totally different beast from a very deep lake/reservoir or from swimming in a river which is muddy and you can't see the bottom or assess it for weeds.