Could anything have incentivised you to have more children?

[Echobelly]

Following excerpts from this demented article about how the birth rate might be upped in the UK ('get a telegram from the Queen when you have a third child!'): twitter.com/rhiannonlucyc/status/1543475834769522688

along with the SCOTUS ruling the other week, it got me thinking about how all ideas about how to get birth rates higher seem to involve 'Demanding women give their whole lives to childbearing and giving them a pat on the back for being good breeders' and how it never seems to involve anything that would actually make it easier for women to have children and thrive as full human beings.

I have to say, if there were free or heavily subidised childcare available I would probably have had a third, but I couldn't face that long under the burden on childcare costs (although there is the 'needing a larger car and house' issue as well). Could any subsidy or offer from government have encouraged you to have more children than you are planning/have?

My biggest concern about having a second is the mental capacity for two. I’m bored out of my mind on mat leave and can’t wait to get back to work, so I’m not going to enjoy being a SAHM so I don’t know if I can keep my sanity by working and juggle two. No government policy can address that.

Nothing would convince me to have more. The more you have the harder it is to be anything but a mum. I am so much more than a mum and I will not sacrifice any more of my life.

Maternity leave needs to be realistic - i have a very well paid career - am the main earner by x4 DH - £150 per week SMP is quite frankly an insult

child benefit needs to be fair - households earning more than us still entitled to it but we aren't as I on my own earn over £60k

Subsidised childcare - Europe does it. Or interest free government loans to pay for childcare not just an account - that's spreads childcare cost say over say 10 years.

Housing market - I'd love a 4th but we'd struggle to find and afford a bigger home

University fees - don't see why as parents we should be means tested and expected to contribute

Absutely nothing!

Nothing.
IMO at every turn women are discriminated against and our health and finances are damaged enormously by having children.

I think mothers are treated with contempt by the state (and often their partners).

If you care about the planet and humanity then we need to reduce the number of children we have and support each other (especially internationally) so that Labour is free to move where it is needed and the global wealth can be distributed more fairly.

These are all really good points. I'm on Maternity Allowance for another month and getting £600 a month is bankrupting me. And then from that last SMP payment before I get my first "back to work" salary I've got to pay September's nursery/childminder fees in advance.

We have 3. To persuade me and DH to have more I think I would need:

Better legal provision for paternity leave- longer, and on a par with womens maternity policies of 80% pay for x months etc, that could be taken after the woman has had her maternity leave.

Better child benefit policies- means testing on each individuals income has meant that families like mine where I am a SAHM for practical reasons can "only" earn 50k before paying some back whereas a family with 2 earners can earn 100k. We accepted this as fact before we had a 3rd, but it would and did make a difference in our deciding not to have a 4th.

Better provision for children with additional needs/ asd in schools

Lower cost public transport

But on a practical note, for us, 3 is our limit because that's how much energy we have available to give out. We meet everyones needs at the moment- 1 DD is diagnosed autistic, my other 2 kids are on the way to being assessed- and we also meet our own needs as parents - I am autistic and DH is quite probably autistic but undiagnosed. Any more would stretch us too thin for me to be comfortable with that- emotionally and financially. Plus as a previous poster said, we don't need people to have lots of babies, we do need to be aware of the effect having kids has on the environment/ world around us.

To those saying the world is overpopulated - yes it is - but that population is top heavy. One fifth of people are over 65 and birth rate is declining.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9239/

This is a big problem. Lots of old people and not enough young people to care for them and pay taxes to keep them in pensions and fund care homes.

The better solution might actually be euthanasia to be legalised for those who want it, but the government don't seem to be on board with that so the next best option is to increase birth rates.

Nothing would have encouraged me to have 3. DH & I have 1, my choice. (DH wanted another child.) DD & I both nearly died when she was born, I had a rotten pregnancy, & the chronic condition I had for many years before getting pregnant got worse due to pregnancy, & never improved. I also still suffer from occasional PGP, 10 years on.

And that’s before I even think about the cost & continual exhaustion of raising a child with ASD. Or the fact that I’m still fatter than I used to be, nothing worked to get rid of the pregnancy weight because I’m permanently tired. Or the lack of ability to be spontaneous any more, curtailment to any social life, limitations to employment, & never ending mess & housework to sort out.

That said, she is the light of my life & I don’t regret it.

*MA not SMP but the rates are identical.

To answer the question, if the government could buy me a house with 4 bedrooms, I would have a fourth child.

A telegram from the Queen would do F all.

"There are more older people than ever, with 11.1million now over 65 — one in six — equating to around two million more pensioners compared with 2011."

"there has also been a huge rise in the number of people aged 90 or over. There are now more than half a million over-90s, up a quarter in a decade."

I have 3, I would have had a 4th for a million pounds maybe, but no less than that. My third baby was much more difficult than my first two, if she had been easier i might have done it for less.

Lots of Europeans go back to work full time when their kids are six months or younger. I speak from personal experience of friends and family. It’s a myth that all these countries are all amazing for family policies.
I’d have loved one more child but I’m too old so have to be happy with my two.

Agree with this

Speaking with friends in EU they can’t believe the way that childcare or mat leave is funded in the UK

I don’t mind some kind of scaling contribution, but the max ceiling is way lower in several countries in the EU

For me the impact on my career plus massive income implications of taking another mat leave for any extended time plus high childcare costs … plus thinking of the exhaustion - I am done

In my mind I would have loved 3-4 DC but stopped at 2

I have two DC, I had moments when I would have liked a third but decided not to, essentially for financial reasons - childcare costs, and needing a bigger house / car to fit them all in.

However the world is already overpopulated so I don't think encouraging people to have more children is a great idea.

It depends on the country - so much of this is cultural context and how incentives are set up

I have had collègues in Germany really struggle to find any childcare before 18-24 months, and then in France return much earlier - so all depends

However the world is already overpopulated so I don't think encouraging people to have more children is a great idea.

Not by kids though!!!

Better support for families with a disabled child. We always wanted 4 but stopped when we realised that our eldest had extremely high care needs.

@DockOTheBay honestly it's like beating your head against a wall. Of course an article about the census on the DM still had top comments about immigrants & people having 10 dc on benefits. This is why the government won't tackle it.

The better solution might actually be euthanasia to be legalised for those who want it. Exactly if overpopulation is a concern this would be how you reduce it.

Bigger council properties.
Better postnatal care for mental health and for physical damage done through repeated pregnancies.
Longer maternity leave and well paid part-time return.
More child friendly places to visit.
A designated buggy space on a bus that is not in the wheelchair space.
More public toilets with nappy change area open all the time even on a Sunday.
Creches in shopping centres like what Ikea used to do.
Mill tokens for all parents with children under the age of 5.
Better GP availability and nhs dentists.
A decent looking 7 seater car that is cheap

Denmark has paid ML and subsidised childcare. The average is 1.7 children per woman.

A fully funded night nanny to bring me the baby for feeds and then take them away again so I could sleep. Anything less than that and I'm not doing it!

(DD2 is 8 weeks old and I'm exhausted)

A more serious answer, considerably cheaper childcare would be the biggest incentive I think. However, for me, I just don't want another one so there isn't anything. But for most people, I think it's cost that stops them. Childcare is a big one, but also larger house, larger car, more expensive holidays, more money on clothes, food, hobbies etc. Plus loss of earnings of course.

Milk tokens

I would have loved 3, but no way could we have afforded it and the thought of having 3 children and working full time was too much.
The financial side for us wasn't childcare - it was housing costs and having 1 parent reduce their hours. We couldn't make it work.