Anyone else just think it’s great that life is back to “normal”?

[curiousitygotthebetterofme]

After two years of covid restrictions, I mean.

Was just watching Glastonbury and looking at the big crowds of people there, it’s hard to believe we have had so many restrictions over the last two years.

This time in 2020 and even this time last year I never thought we’d get back to this level of normality, well at least not for an extremely long time so I just think it’s wonderful to see everyone back together and enjoying themselves again

Cheers m'dear 😃 Yes the RHS. DS slept in the top level of the sheep trailer and had a whale of a time showing the sheep and going to evening events.

Aww I'm glad the farming show went well. Hope all concerned enjoyed it and it was a commercially successful event.

I have seen more friends and family with Covid in the last six months than I did over the whole of lockdown.

I’m not delighting in normality, I’m resigned to selfishness on a national scale, as modeled by those in government.

I think it’s possible to believe:

— long covid is a real and horrible thing

— long covid is not going to destroy civilisation as we know it

— when it comes to vaguely-defined health conditions it’s quite difficult to separate out the health effects of covid from the health effects of everything else from the pandemic

— there is a developing strain of apocalyptic/conspiracy thinking around long covid, where it’s simultaneously destroying the country and being covered up by the government and media, where it’s always terribly damaging to people but also so mild people can be unaware they have it, where it hasn’t brought the country to its knees yet but this just means that it’s definitely going to after the next 3/4/20 infections, etc etc etc.

After two years of people making huge sacrifices to their normal lives, mostly for the benefit of others, I don’t think grumping about the selfishness of the general population is the best way to go.

NHS are planning variants? Why would they do that, when they are always complaining about being at breaking point?

Yes, I’m happy about it OP.

I’m not dismissing the impact of covid, I’m not in the “just a cold” crew, but even so, on a national level I think the damage done long term by lockdowns and restrictions is worse than the damage done by letting covid spread.

Yes, nobody still making that argument at this point can be taken seriously. It ignores the significant sacrifices made by millions of people over a sustained period and often is based on the idea that one's own priorities and selfish interests are fine but other people's different ones are problematic.

NHS are planning variants? Why would they do that, when they are always complaining about being at breaking point?

Because it's their job and they keep on doing it.

HTH

I love the fact that my children and grandchildren can go out and live their lives as they did before covid. I'm just sad that I can't join in as I did before covid.
5 vaccinations but no antibodies and we have one of the few governments in the western world refusing to fund Evushield for those who are cev and either can't have the vaccinations or they havent had an immune response.

Yeah, I do think we should do that. Our response at this stage needs to concentrate on doing what we can for the most vulnerable to the virus rather than pretending trying to stop an increasingly pandemic fatigued population from living their lives as they wish is going to achieve anything.

He wont because he doesn't care. have he would rather give the money it would cost to his mates. I've even contacted ashes zenica to ask how I can buy it privately but the government have blocked them from supplying to anyone in the uk. I'm now considering trying to get it privately in Europe

Yes I think you're probably right @Sugarplumfairy65.

Interesting to see the many mentions of long covid. But scarcely a mention of immunosuppressed - people who are actually susceptible to dying, barely thought of except in a "well they are vulnerable anyway to plenty of other things, sad, but there it is way"

Hardly anyone has heard of Evusheld, which has been approved here since March, and could give so many people the chance if freedom (that's being used on 30 other countries), developed here in the U.K.

Why is it that the only thing people can think about re covid are RESTRICTIONS?

If you are at risk of drowning, would you say that a life boat is a restriction or a safety measure? Is having a life jacket at hand a restriction or a safety measure? Is asking people to wear said life jacket when there a hole in the boat (albeit small) a restriction or a safety measure?

Covid is there, we are starting a new wave yet again. We could have some ventilation measures put in place in all work place and public places. We could ask places that can’t ensure adequate ventilation to have HEPA filters (eg in buses). How can anyone see those measure as restriction rather than a safety procedure??

Nope it seems that people are convinced the only way to control covid is by lockdowns and asks and both are absolutely awful didn’t you know… nothing else exist.
The ignorance on the measures that can’t be taken is staggering and all down the the government messaging. The ‘I’m not wearing a mask’ brigade isn’t helping either.

The reason why I’m not mentioning immunosuppressed people is because I don’t think the ‘public’ is ready to make any more efforts towards the wellbeing of others.
The whole line of ‘we need to protect the vulnerable’ has been used at the start to encourage people to follow the lockdowns rules by making them feel good about it (I’m doing something for the weakest in the society). Same with the masks later on. And now people are reverting to their usual individualism encouraged by the government messaging about individual responsibility.
So I don’t think it’s going to work.

LC though can affect anyone and everyone. It’s not really talked about (which is dangerous for everyone tbh) and people wanting to take measures to protect themselves and push for more general measures (like ventilation) will help the immunosuppressed too.

I think a lot of it is because that's primarily what the approach has been throughout the pandemic, and because there are often proposals to bring back some restrictions in discussions like these. Even if it's one as relatively minor as masks. And actually the people who are saying they won't wear one are doing us all a favour by pointing that out now, because as well as the lack of evidence they act to control Omicron in real world conditions, the reality that lots of people simply aren't going to do it any more and the detriment that comes from the state having laws they can't enforce is one of the major reasons bringing mask rules back would be a bad idea.

But I agree though, we'd do a lot better to focus on things like ventilation. The restrictions based approach is not coming back and would fail if it did. It isn't a binary choice between restrict people and do nothing at all.

I am not opposed to better ventilation but I would like to see the case for it made a bit better before signing up to any campaigns, myself.

like, HEPA filters on buses: 1) does it actually work, in that particular environment? How much does it reduce illness transmission? 2) what are the costs and who is paying them? If it makes it more expensive to run a bus, do ticket prices go up or do routes get cut? What about council-subsided bus services? How much energy does this take to run, where is that energy coming from? 3) are there similar things we could do instead that reduced all pollution for bus passengers for the same/better cost? would that be better?

Maybe the cost/benefit for any particular ventilation scheme would end up positive, maybe not, but either way it would cost a fortune to do this on a national level so it’s surely worth adding up a bit beyond “of COURSE it would be worth it, it’s SCIENCE”, which is what it usually gets.

I don’t want to see actual restrictions or mask wearing brought back in and like a lot of the population wouldn’t comply if it was. I don’t think it’s needed now and people need to be able to get on with their lives normally. I would support the provision of Evushield through the NHS however, if that’s something that could help the CEV.

Opening the windows is cheap and is really all you need on a bus. It should just be made official guidance. They can put a fixed opener in the window.

Fucking ridiculous we are still arguing about these basics in the UK.

Of course ventilation makes a massive difference. There are loads of studies showing this. Plus clean air is, you know, cleaner.

Does that mean we wouldn't need HEPA filters on buses? I must admit I shy away a bit from the concept of a bus in the middle of winter with all the windows propped open, unless it was so packed that it stayed warm, that level of cold could be a problem for a lot of people with health issues too. It's difficult to find a balance.

Opening the windows is cheap and is really all you need on a bus.

And makes it freezing cold, and increases heating costs, which might be cheap for one bus on one journey but adds up on every bus on every journey across the country.

Or you could just let buses be cold, but this is also pretty horrible for passengers. One of the most unpleasant bus journeys I’ve ever had was due to windows being open for ventilation, in Scotland, in December, in wind and rain, on my way to a hospital for the booster jab - I could not move the muscles in my face when I got off. Is it fair to subject eg my 89-year-old great-aunt to that?

Again: not saying this is a bad idea, not opposed to the broad principles of ventilation. Just saying that any particular expensive thing warrants a hit of time spent totting up the costs vs the benefits, rather than raging about how ‘fucking ridiculous’ it is to ask questions about how well something works.

I’m pleased to be back to normal and thankful so many people has the vaccinations. I do feel
pissed off about all selfish anti vaxers.

Indeed; I personally know of NHS, police, and school staff who broke rules to have house parties and to meet up when it wasn’t allowed!

It's got beyond that point for me @MumbleAlwaysMumble. Many people are still in effectively in lockdown. They aren't just elderly and frail people with minimal lives anyway. They are people with jobs and lives that have been put on hold. We're still going to the shops etc with masks on. I don't think it impinges on the general public and their "compassion fatigue". Just getting desperate for Evusheld to be available to people on the NHS as it's been approved since March. The government don't want to talk about it. Claim it's being tested on new variants. But it's being used in US, Australia, Europe etc. I'm not advocating people to take any restrictions but if mentioning the situation here prompted, maybe, some people to email their MPs about it? I don't know, people are desperate and have no voice. The person I live with has made some level of antibodies after the vaccine and we could afford Evusheld if it was privately available. But their are many who have had 5 vaccines doses and haven't made antibodies and can't afford it. Evusheld cleverly gives you the antibodies to get around that problem.

As for anyone can get Long Covid, anyone can become immunosuppressed through a multitude of conditions with no warning.

@GoldenOmber it is not possible to do some research on every eventuality, from buses to a restaurant, classroom etc… we don’t have the time, the researchers and the money to do it case by casse.
Buut we already know a lot. We know that measuring CO2 levels is a good way to approximate risks of infection. We know HEPA filters work. We know about the flow air, the risks associated with recycling air etc… the research is there and has been used with great success. In Japan who never had a lockdown, has a much lower death rate and infection rate despite having an older population.

fwiw if you want to talk about cost, maybe have a look at how much it costs the country to have half a million people out of work because of LC. See the worries from the Bank of England. And the cost of benefits RIGHTLY given out. Do you really think it will cost more to have proper ventilation and HEPA filters in place??