Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Middle class indicators 2022 part 2

304 replies

Pullandpush · 18/06/2022 15:54

Current thread has 1000 posts so restarting.. Was asked at the end of the last thread what I would identify as & I am solidly working class due to working hard to pay our mortgage, kids in state school & having a very modest lifestyle.

OP posts:
sunja · 20/06/2022 13:06

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 12:51

i can’t see most private schools surviving in the next few years. A combination of cost of living crisis, nervousness about another pandemic and this generation attaching stigma to private education.

I disagree with stigma. Amongst my various friendship groups I would say this isn't the case. We have one friend currently privately educating his daughter and plenty of other friends also considering it. DH and I will also consider it at the time.

Lots of people shout about being against it but there are still plenty of people who support the system and would like to send their children to PS if possible

sunja · 20/06/2022 13:14

@Tsandjdarethrbest I disagree with your point regarding stigma*

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 13:34

There is definitely stigma whether you agree with it or not. Public school educated is now reported as a negative in public life for example.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

sunja · 20/06/2022 15:49

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 13:34

There is definitely stigma whether you agree with it or not. Public school educated is now reported as a negative in public life for example.

@Tsandjdarethrbest reported where?

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 16:09

In the press and social media. Extensively so.

riesenrad · 20/06/2022 16:19

BanjoVio · 18/06/2022 22:34

I think class indicators are more to do with what you do with your money, rather than necessarily how much you have. Man U tickets and an all-inclusive beach holiday in Spain cost more than theatre tickets and a whiskey tasting holiday in the Highlands, but I know which are more middle class.

I just can't get my head around that certain hobbies make you better than other people.

riesenrad · 20/06/2022 16:20

i can’t see most private schools surviving in the next few years

They survived the financial crash around 2007/2008 - they'll survive this as well. Probably get even more pupils, there are plenty of well off people out there, cost of living crisis or not. They'll just save a bit less or spend on different things.

BanjoVio · 20/06/2022 16:22

riesenrad · 20/06/2022 16:19

I just can't get my head around that certain hobbies make you better than other people.

Well they don’t, do they? You made that leap.

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 16:25

The pandemic has made a lot of people jittery. Things can turn on a sixpence and people who have been living on a financial wing and prayer are now having to rethink things. Plus, there is a perception that private education could be a barrier to entry to Oxbridge (I’m not saying it is, I am pointing out that’s what many people are starting to believe). Also, if Boris goes a new government could scrap charitable status. Boris and his sort have definitely contributed to making private education a poison chalice. Hence I think private schools could be in big trouble.

DangerouslyBored · 20/06/2022 16:45

I live in a rural commuter village, in a beautiful cottage, ride horses, go camping and hiking, play the violin and piano, own an old ish Land Rover, (it’s always dirty due to living rurally/horses). We are a v ‘outdoorsy’ family. We own two working spaniels. DH and I WFH (most of the time). Our household income is £150k+. DH is in management, I work in finance. We are v well travelled. We have a holiday home in France. Classical music is our music of choice. House is full of books, mostly science and history. We value savings, our pensions, and experiences over getting into debt to have the latest brands.

This may seem like a pointless brag. It isn’t (I mean who cares anyway, I could be lying and you don’t know me so what would I get out of a. bragging to randoms and b. lying).

The point is that DH and I are solidly WC, despite all of the above MN MC ‘markers’! Neither went to uni, our parents are WC, and most importantly, we both called our grandma ‘Nan’! We are what we are and I find it laughable that some posters insist that any activity or hobby that’s considered healthful / wholesome / intellectual must be MC. So blinkered, and frankly, so stupid to believe such nonsense. There is nothing wrong with being WC! I’d much rather own who I am than be aspiring MC, like many of those on the first thread.

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 16:59

I relate to that @DangerouslyBored

sunja · 20/06/2022 17:09

@

sunja · 20/06/2022 17:09

@DangerouslyBored I would say due to social mobility, you're now MC

SleepingStandingUp · 20/06/2022 17:13

BanjoVio · 18/06/2022 22:34

I think class indicators are more to do with what you do with your money, rather than necessarily how much you have. Man U tickets and an all-inclusive beach holiday in Spain cost more than theatre tickets and a whiskey tasting holiday in the Highlands, but I know which are more middle class.

Well I've just brought theatre tickets and ballet tickets, and we'd def take whiskey tasting over Spain AI (it'll be house sitting in Wales) so clearly we're just wannabe MC 😂😂

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 17:22

Well I regularly buy Man U tickets and go on all inclusive holidays. I also go to the theatre every week, have a house full of books and an enviable career in the arts. Why are the British so keen to pigeonhole people? It’s so damaging.

SleepingStandingUp · 20/06/2022 17:31

DangerouslyBored · 20/06/2022 16:45

I live in a rural commuter village, in a beautiful cottage, ride horses, go camping and hiking, play the violin and piano, own an old ish Land Rover, (it’s always dirty due to living rurally/horses). We are a v ‘outdoorsy’ family. We own two working spaniels. DH and I WFH (most of the time). Our household income is £150k+. DH is in management, I work in finance. We are v well travelled. We have a holiday home in France. Classical music is our music of choice. House is full of books, mostly science and history. We value savings, our pensions, and experiences over getting into debt to have the latest brands.

This may seem like a pointless brag. It isn’t (I mean who cares anyway, I could be lying and you don’t know me so what would I get out of a. bragging to randoms and b. lying).

The point is that DH and I are solidly WC, despite all of the above MN MC ‘markers’! Neither went to uni, our parents are WC, and most importantly, we both called our grandma ‘Nan’! We are what we are and I find it laughable that some posters insist that any activity or hobby that’s considered healthful / wholesome / intellectual must be MC. So blinkered, and frankly, so stupid to believe such nonsense. There is nothing wrong with being WC! I’d much rather own who I am than be aspiring MC, like many of those on the first thread.

Well if you're living a "middle class life o na middle class budget" then surely that makes you middle class. Your parents weren't. You're emergent MC. if you have children they'll be raised MC. BUT it's so transient it is indeed meaningless.

DangerouslyBored · 20/06/2022 17:35

sunja · 20/06/2022 17:09

@DangerouslyBored I would say due to social mobility, you're now MC

MC don’t call their grandma ‘Nan’. They just don’t Grin

I’m WC. And I’m ok with that!

Octomore · 20/06/2022 17:38

DangerouslyBored · 20/06/2022 16:45

I live in a rural commuter village, in a beautiful cottage, ride horses, go camping and hiking, play the violin and piano, own an old ish Land Rover, (it’s always dirty due to living rurally/horses). We are a v ‘outdoorsy’ family. We own two working spaniels. DH and I WFH (most of the time). Our household income is £150k+. DH is in management, I work in finance. We are v well travelled. We have a holiday home in France. Classical music is our music of choice. House is full of books, mostly science and history. We value savings, our pensions, and experiences over getting into debt to have the latest brands.

This may seem like a pointless brag. It isn’t (I mean who cares anyway, I could be lying and you don’t know me so what would I get out of a. bragging to randoms and b. lying).

The point is that DH and I are solidly WC, despite all of the above MN MC ‘markers’! Neither went to uni, our parents are WC, and most importantly, we both called our grandma ‘Nan’! We are what we are and I find it laughable that some posters insist that any activity or hobby that’s considered healthful / wholesome / intellectual must be MC. So blinkered, and frankly, so stupid to believe such nonsense. There is nothing wrong with being WC! I’d much rather own who I am than be aspiring MC, like many of those on the first thread.

You may have grown up WC, but you are both MC now. Not because of your hobbies, but by virtue of your income and occupations. You have plenty of the social capital associated with the middle classes.

Octomore · 20/06/2022 17:42

DangerouslyBored · 20/06/2022 17:35

MC don’t call their grandma ‘Nan’. They just don’t Grin

I’m WC. And I’m ok with that!

I used to call my nans "nan" (when they were alive), and I'm in the same boat as you. WC by background, but now MC as an adult by virtue of my profession, income and social capital.

Pretending that you're WC when you work in finance and have a high household income (and the lifestyle to match) is just silly imo.

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 17:43

Who gives a shit who’s working-class and who’s middle-class though? Why does it matter so much to some of you?

DangerouslyBored · 20/06/2022 17:44

Octomore · 20/06/2022 17:42

I used to call my nans "nan" (when they were alive), and I'm in the same boat as you. WC by background, but now MC as an adult by virtue of my profession, income and social capital.

Pretending that you're WC when you work in finance and have a high household income (and the lifestyle to match) is just silly imo.

‘Pretending’ to be WC Grin

Octomore · 20/06/2022 17:46

How I define myself, or how I'm viewed by others, doesn't matter much to me at all.

Classier prejudice, assumptions that WC people are thick/vulgar etc. (demonstrated many times on this and the previous thread) - that bothers me.

The fact that social mobility is low and WC have poorer life chances (and are often sneered at for this) - that bothers me.

Octomore · 20/06/2022 17:47

I don't dispute that you grew up WC, but that's not where you're at now. Class is not immutable.

Octomore · 20/06/2022 17:48

Post above should have said: Classist prejudice. Not classier!

Tsandjdarethrbest · 20/06/2022 17:50

Social mobility bothers me too. In real life I do what I can to address it. I have suffered terrible prejudice in my life because of snobbery. I am nevertheless fascinated why posters on here are so invested in labels. I want to know what motivates this. If we understand that we can start to dismantle the class system in the country.