Changing the language re SAHMs

[Nocaloriesinchocolate]

This is not TAAT but on another thread Ive just been reading the OP said she and DH had 3 young children and went on to say wtte of “I dont work; DH is the sole earner”. I hate, hate, hate that phrase since imo it completely denigrates and diminishes what a SAHM does. Of course a SAHM works - probably harder than a wage earning partner since she doesn’t clock off. What she means - and this is what I wish people would say instead - is that she is not in paid employment.

OK rant over

Oh smashing. It's been at least a day since we had a working mother bashing thread.

Call yourself what you want. Just stop with the criticising of those who don't live the same life as you.

But while we're changing the language for you, can you stop calling yourselves "full time mothers" with the implication that those who aren't SAHMs are not?

Respect cuts both ways.

You're onto a losing battle, OP. There is a vociferous minority on MN (they'll be along soon) who despise SAHMs. They'll point out that they do everything a SAHM does whilst also working a 40 hour job. And they found maternity leave a breeze ...

As long as you and your DH share finances and value what each brings to the family, don't be troubled by semantics. Just enjoy this time with your DC

"I don't work" is just short hand for "not currently in paid employment in order to take care of my children", everyone knows what it means. "DH is the sole earner" is just true! I have always found mn pretty negative about SAHMs but this phrase doesn't bother me tbh.

Mumsnet should be called WorkingMumsnet, because there’s a culture on here of a career being this highly sought after prize and a denigration of SAHMs. When I said men should also do the night feeds because women on maternity leave work as well, I got slated. Anything positive about a SAHM is seen as bashing working mothers for some reason.

I agree with you that SAHMs work just as hard, if not harder, than people in paid employment.

Where has the OP bashed working mothers?

PAFMO - what on earth prompted this response? Too much emotion for this time of the morning. FYI the issue is entirely irrelevant to me personally as my only DS is an adult and I was never a SAHM. So sorry not to have read the memo about how often a subject can be raised. Perhaps you’d better ask Mumsnet to check how many other poster weren’t told.

Well, the responses you've had so far, including the one from the working mother basher of recent days rather proves my point.

"probably harder than a wage earning partner since she doesn’t clock off"

Show me where that sentence of yours isn't othering those who work?

You could give her some tips to get her up to your well-documented genius level?

You’ve got a massive chip on your shoulder haven’t you?! Anything positive about SAHMs is attacking working mothers according to you. You should work on why it bothers you so much.

Oh good lord this went bad fast

i don’t normally post on these threads (any more) because I normally rock up half way through

but no, I don’t mind the term sole earner

(i dislike the phrase ‘full time mum’)

I mean it depends doesnt it, really? My bf is is SAHM to two teens. She is a lunchtime supervisor just for fun. She has health issues and SEN so most FT jobs would be impossible or unbearable (painful) for her. Her life is pretty easy - she has a cleaner to do the heavy housework. Her DH provides for her. She spends a lot of her time socialising or gently exercising to help her health conditions. She is very happy, and has bags and bags of free time and enough money to enjoy her leisure time without being excessive.

On the other hand I know SAHMs who have at least one child, a DH who works all hours and does nothing to help run the household, and caring responsibilities for elderly relatives, are scraping by financially and exhausted all the time.

The idea that you can compare these two lifestyles is silly.

I am a FT mum with a DH who also works FT. I have a cleaner to help once a week as we find that easier albeit expensive. Do I think I work hard? YES!!! I work exceptionally hard even though I have avoided promotion so I could prioritise work.I want to earn a pension for myself. I want my kids to enjoy extra curriculars but still have plenty of free time with me. I want to have it all.

Would I say I work harder than the average SAHM? No because I simply don't believe in an average SAHM.

Would I say the language needs changing? No, because I understand the conventional short-hand "I don't work" means "I don't have an independent source of income generated by employment or self-employment". That's just a ridiculous mouthful.

When I was a SAHM (for three years) I rarely said "I don't work". Typically I said, gleefully to my working parent friends "I've got a few years off work to spend with my elderly mum and my kids, and I'm broke but I'm loving it!". It was definitely, definitely a much easier life than being a working mum, even with a needy baby/toddler and a dying mother to care for.

The phrase "my DP is the sole earner" is factually accurate. I don't see how you can argue with that. Simply because the SAHP is facilitating the arrangement whereby one partner works to generate the household income, doesnt mean the non-earning partner can claim to be earning.

Oh

and ive never called myself a full time mum either

and this is why people get pissed off…when everyone is lumped into the same category with no nuance (or use of the word some)

Everyone works but in different ways although no way does a SAHM work harder than a working parent.

Its similar to the stupid comments that a working parent isn’t a full time mum. I returned to working full time in my career since DT’s were six months old but I’m still their full time mum and even though they are now 22 that title will never change!

Everyone works but in different ways although no way does a SAHM work harder than a working parent

sorry to pick this up

but there are definitely SOME SAHM that work harder that SOME working parents

probably a small minority but they exist

(and really depends on the definition of working parent and obviously on the home situation of the SAHM)

It’s just shorthand. Everyone knows that it means they stay at home to look after children and don’t go out to do a paid job. Nobody thinks it actually means they do not a shred of physical or mental activity whatsoever and just sit on their ass all day long. (And most people really don’t care what you do at all, they’re just asking to be polite.)

Well can we just state facts?

I've worn both shoes so I can compare the 2 really well.

Neither is comfortable but I can tell you 100% I'd rather be a SAHM then be working parent AND a full time mum.

It was much easier FOR ME, again I say FOR ME when I was a SAHM.

Now I feel like I work like Donkey, I do my 9-5 and come home and do my 2nd shift. It never ends. I never get a pissing break. Not even on weekends. When I was a SAHM I had loads of free time I cant lie. I'm just moaning now lol.

You can't compare anything. Is being a surgeon easier than a sales assistant because as a surgeon you've the luxury of a decent salary by comparison? Maybe someone is sales has a cushy job because they earn so much commission. I heard someone say a checkout operator has it easy sitting down all day (not if you sat at some of the tills I have but neither here nor there) you can't compare a sahp with multiple kids, multiple supports, multiple personalities, financial situations. None of it is comparable.

Agree with you. Full time mum is a term that makes my skin crawl. My (single) mum worked every hour she could to keep a roof over our head and food on the table, taught me to value family time at weekends and evenings and that she didn't exist just for me, and that one had to work hard if we wanted anything. She set me the best example ever. By no means 'part time'.

& nobody ever asks the same question to the Dad. He is seen as a provider where as a working mum is seen as providing luxuries & treats.

Id prefer if people said nothing and allowed people to bring up their family’s without passing judgement. (Though I always say any SAHP should ensure financially they don’t screw themselves over pensions etc)

I work as I need to keep a roof over my family’s heads. I’ve always been there for my girls. Dad and I have never missed a sports day or a play. We’ve always shared the care when one of them is poorly. We both chose to have children so we’ve both done the shared care - even when I Breastfeed he would do the nappy change!

I don’t judge a SAHP and ask not to be judged for being a in a family where both parents work.

Well I am a sahm BUT I work in a charity shop part time. So I do all the home chores and childcare plus working. But I don't get paid so what am I?

All parenting is 'work' whether you are in paid employment or not, parenting is hard work. Working parents vs stay at home parents have an equally hard time depending on their individual circumstances and personal strengths. Each bring their own challenges and negatives and each have their own positives and there shouldn't be any judgement either way. I've been both a stay at home parent and a working parent and honestly, neither are easy.

I love working because yes, I do get adult interaction and breaks (I can also go to the toilet without an audience), and honestly the housework is a bit easier to manage because my toddler is out of the house all day which means less mess. But I have less time with my children, I have a lot of guilt and I'm constantly exhausted, there never seems to be enough hours in the day and I miss things like school plays and milestones.

That said there is a lot more judgement towards stay at home parents than parents in paid employment - If I had no financial worries, lots of friends and support and could still have a break then I probably would prefer to be a stay at home mum - but the fact is most women don't have that and so it is hard work and I do think that gets overlooked. Yes, we are always mums but when we are at work, someone else is doing the childcare - we are not doing that and work simultaneously (unless you work from home and have the children there too). We all work equally hard, just differently.

I agree OP. I worked really hard as a sahm as my husband was often away. I don't think i dont work quite covers it.

I also think it devalues the work of a sahm as language as we know affects how we perceive ourselves/others perceive us.

It also plays into those wanting single parents "into work" . Often they are struggling and actually trying very hard with their small children. There can be a lot stacked against them.

Sahm often sacrifice a lot financial and career wise for their decision.

I dont think this is the forum to discuss it on though sadly as you see someone who isn't a sahm wiill jump on you.

Why do people even care so much about this?
I really don't have any interest in whether a woman is a sahm, career woman, woman who just has a job (which is different to a career), a 'housewife' or whatever.
However if I was having a conversation at a social gathering I might be interested in some other part of their life.
I have a 'hobby' (guess by my user name) which if someone asked me "what do you do?" I would be more likely to say "I am currently organising stuff for the so and so show".
I really aren't that interested in whether they work in paid employment or not - unless they have a really unusual or interesting job like Circus Master or Zoo Keeper 😂

@TheVolturi @WhatsInAMolatovMocktail I wouldn't say a SAHM if you are working part time however few your hours you are in part time paid employment. A stay at home mum is not doing any paid work to my mind.

‘I don’t work’ nearly always means ‘I’m not in paid employment’, and the vast majority of people will take it as such. They won’t infer that the SAHM is sitting on her arse all day, doing her nails and watching Netflix.