Middle class identifiers 2022

[Pullandpush]

I read a similar thread a few years ago & the main middle class markers were hummus, organic food, private education, boden, ski trips etc, farrow & ball..
Are these unchanged for 2022 or have the identifiers shifted?
Since the pandemic I've seen a rise in the "hipster" style MC especially the men, maybe the working from home has allowed them to relax into the unshaven, casual look which wasn't there a few years ago...
Private education seems to be on the wane but that may be due to the cost of living..
Any other main MC identifiers I missed?

@RedToothBrush i shop at Waitrose but I work there and there are ways to make your cash go further. Also the quality is significantly higher in certain areas
My job is to look at shopping patterns in fmcg markets. People think shopping around is the best way to save money but it's not.

Of course, we do have positive discrimination now, cos my daughter was prevented from going on language courses abroad at her state grammar school cos both my husband and I were 2nd generation University graduates but MY dad was from working class stock in Liverpool and I ‘just ‘ went to a state grammar school, whereas my husband and his father had been to public school , and my MIL thought I was ‘ working class’ !!!

I have to chuckle about the Waitrose trope. I used to shop there when I was a student. Mainly because it was the nearest supermarket to our house. Our choices were either that, or Iceland across the road, which I shopped in also. Didn't really see anything special about it then, just another food place. Only seen it as a signifier" a good few years later on MN

It’s Graham’s butter in this house but that’s maybe just a Scottish thing. I like the small tubs too because then it doesn’t linger in the fridge too long if we aren’t in peak toast season. One of those big tubs of Lurpak could hang around for months here!!

@snowgal made an interesting point for me. We are nowhere near your level of earnings but I agree that as your earnings increase you do care less. It’s almost like you know you have enough money so you don’t need to prove it to anyone else. When I look back at us when we were much much younger we definitely did strive to play a part and have people believe we were doing well when we weren’t really. Thankfully not to the degree of getting into debt or anything but just the priorities were all wrong. Now that we are pretty comfortable financially (but not well off) I find myself not caring that the car on the doorstep isn’t brand new or that the children aren’t seen in the best of brands. It’s sad that I obviously felt I had something to prove back then but liberating now to just be able to live my life. This is separate really from the class discussion but interesting all the same!

Funnily enough I do remember the kids at school who quite blatantly had the least household income always had the latest Nike trainers and the fancy tracksuits.

People saying class=money are just so wrong!!! Think of reality type slebs or footballers etc who could have millions of pounds but still be working class. And they might send their child to private school but is it for the same reasons as most MC parents or just because they can, because it’s almost a designer school?

@WombatChocolate hit the nail on the head for me. I really don’t think it’s so prevalent in Scotland or at least not outside the cities so I couldn’t call myself middle class it would just be ridiculous but we fall very firmly into their description of it.

@Pipsquiggle so you're saying that the quality of the food varies from Waitrose to Waitrose?

And you think it's better to do all your shopping there rather than a mix of between there and Aldi/Lidl as that would be cheaper?

@Yayayaya20 so are you of the opinion that money has absolutely nothing to do with class? I completely understand that people can be working class and come into money through jobs such as being a footballer, winning the lottery etc but then how do they continue to fit in with the WC definition?

I've seen many people on here say 'I am still proudly WC' or 'I know someone who is now really well off but they are still proudly WC' but just because they were doesn't mean they still are in my opinion. I think becoming wealthy firmly moves someone out of WC territory even if they grew up that way or identify as WC

so are you of the opinion that money has absolutely nothing to do with class? Absolutely the case in this country, a lot less so in more 'meritocratic' countries such as the US, I'd have thought.

But even so, the US does have their own equivalent of aristos doesn't it?

@sunja, yes, that's right, money (income, windfall) has nothing to do with class, although it can make you nouveau-riche.

@KirstenBlest so what about professionals such as lawyers, doctors, accountants, bankers etc who have WC parents but went to good unis - now have great, 6 figure paying jobs and do lots of the things on the lists on these threads? Still WC?

@sunja, they are MC by dint of their education and occupation.

Seriously, if you are having to ask, do you really need to know?

Becoming a professional would elevate you class-wise but it's still not generally widespread to have that 'jump' in one generation, even nowadays (some would argue that it's got more difficult than in the 20th Century). In the 40s, 50s and 60s it was much more likely, at a time when free grammar school education helped a whole generation of poor but bright young people catapult themselves into such professions.

I can think of one of my friends whose parents both came from WC backgrounds. They went to grammar school and university and both became doctors. Their children enjoyed all the trappings of a very MC life, including boarding school (and two went on to Oxbridge, both now professionals too). Using the identifiers mentioned on this thread, I would say my friend ticks more of the boxes than anyone else I know.

@KirstenBlest this is a discussion thread and I am interested. It wasn't my intention to cause offence/annoy you and I apologise if that was the result. Feel free not to reply to me

@LouisCatorze very interesting. My grandparents on both sides are immigrants and had very WC jobs such as factory workers, cleaners etc. my mom is a teacher and my dad is a factory worker. They sent me to grammar school and I now have a very professional, highly paid job. So I find threads like this very interesting when people speak about it being generational and turning on what your parents do etc.

According to the link I posted upthread (which seems to have been largely ignored) 🤣 the working classes now only account for 6 percent of the population. That should annoy the upwardly aspirational who are hoping to define themesleves against the working classes by nature of where they shop and what butter they buy. To be working class used to be a respected thing. Now everyone wants to try to be middle class.
On the BBC quiz I came out as technical middle class. This explains why I am middle class but feel quite different to the established middle class. I don't go to the opera and listen to classical music for example. I do hang out with other academics, teachers and artists but my social circle is limited to people very similar to myself.

@sunja interesting that you went to a grammar school. In the past, they have certainly been great facilitators for education and social progression. Still think it's the case today but of course it depends on where you live (as there are only 164 left across England).

Interestingly when DF went to a grammar school, it was considered 'odd' as he came from a very MC background himself and it was just not the norm. Most of his cohort were from LMC/WC backgrounds.

@LouisCatorze that's interesting. When I went the majority of the girls were middle class and noticeably so. Their lives were very different to mine and I was exposed to so many things I knew nothing about. I loved it though and I think grammar schools are excellent

@sunja, not offended, but I am a bit puzzled at some of the posts (not necessarily yours)

In your case, it is probably, your GPs were WC, your DP one LMC one WC, you are MC

On the subject of other countries' class systems, by coincidence I'm currently reading 'Empire of Pain' (book about Oxycontin & the Sacklers, the incredibly wealthy family behind it) and the early chapters are really good on how the older Sacklers navigated their way upwards through the NYC class system, busily modifying accents, acquiring degrees & donating to the 'right' institutions. It was all very familiar!

@SomewhereEast not to derail the thread but have you watched Dopesick? Amazing show and just shocking!

@sunja I said money doesn’t equal class.

There are equivalents in the UK too. The Vestey family who are very friendly with the RF started life as butchers in the late 19th century.

Actually in the UK it's been quite common for aristos to marry money/trade to boost wealth. That's why American heiresses (but from much humbler stock) marrying into the UK aristocracy became a thing. See Downton Abbey for a fictional example, or Winston Churchill's own parents.

I have posh American family, immigrated started with nothing, prioritised education, built businesses from scratch... My cousins are now reaping their parents efforts, most attended an ivy league college, own 2 million dollar homes on the East Coast & raising their dc the same way... Unfortunately they are all unbearable snobs, money is key, anyone who's not rich is referred to as "white trash" (the UK side of the family all fit this bill), the wives are all caroline bissett kennedy clones, private Catholic schools all the way... Ski holidays regularly in Colarado & France/Switzerland for the European break... Their snobbery is much worse than the UK in my opinion, they don't hide their contempt of those less fortunate...

According to the link I posted upthread (which seems to have been largely ignored) 🤣 the working classes now only account for 6 percent of the population. That should annoy the upwardly aspirational who are hoping to define themesleves against the working classes by nature of where they shop and what butter they buy. To be working class used to be a respected thing. Now everyone wants to try to be middle class.

I must have missed your link. C2s and below only account for 6% of the population? That doesn't sound likely.

Self identification I can well imagine most people think they're middle class!

Here you go

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-now-has-7-social-classes-and-working-class-is-a-dwindling-breed-8557894.html

Now everyone wants to try to be middle class.

Or do they just want to enjoy middle class trappings.

The food, the lifestyles, the education, the butter. And why wouldn't you?

Personally I struggle with the idea of people consciously " trying to be MC". So artificial and straight out of 1980s Jilly
Cooper.

I think more often you see MC trying NOT to be WC.

Read the Names thread on MN.