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Middle class identifiers 2022

1000 replies

Pullandpush · 14/06/2022 08:06

I read a similar thread a few years ago & the main middle class markers were hummus, organic food, private education, boden, ski trips etc, farrow & ball..
Are these unchanged for 2022 or have the identifiers shifted?
Since the pandemic I've seen a rise in the "hipster" style MC especially the men, maybe the working from home has allowed them to relax into the unshaven, casual look which wasn't there a few years ago...
Private education seems to be on the wane but that may be due to the cost of living..
Any other main MC identifiers I missed?

OP posts:
sunglassesonthetable · 18/06/2022 12:30

keith Richards is an avid military historian apparently

like lots of old men

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 12:32

I was out with some of my local, solidly MC tribe yesterday evening. None of us well-off, most of us are eco-warriors and live car-free lifestyles, all brimming with cultural capital and intellectual curiosity. Not a privately school educated or educating one amongst us. All DC heading/headed to university. Some have allotments. None of the traits mentioned in your most recent post @Pullandpush would apply.

2356vw · 18/06/2022 12:33

sunja · 18/06/2022 12:14

@2356vw that's very interesting as only the minority will earn c. £150k. Investment bankers, entrepreneurs/business owners, financial professionals etc. Not many people at all will achieve that as it's just very unusual

all the things people have mentioned require to be in a job that pays that much. I mean a detached house in south east is 1.3-1.5 million, private schools 30k per child (in London) and that's before you even get to the opera or sweaty Betty leggings. And both partners need to earn that. I look at my brother who earns circa 130k but his partner is only on 50k and frankly in their part of London - they are at a clear disadvantage when it comes to housing in comparison to their friends. They are both 35 and can just about afford 1million but that doesnt get you much.

Pullandpush · 18/06/2022 12:46

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 12:32

I was out with some of my local, solidly MC tribe yesterday evening. None of us well-off, most of us are eco-warriors and live car-free lifestyles, all brimming with cultural capital and intellectual curiosity. Not a privately school educated or educating one amongst us. All DC heading/headed to university. Some have allotments. None of the traits mentioned in your most recent post @Pullandpush would apply.

Then I wouldn't class you as middle class, to me you sound like a responsible citizen who raised good kids & contribute to society in a positive way but I personally wouldn't class you as middle class

OP posts:
Giggorata · 18/06/2022 12:47

Some of what has been discussed on here puts me in mind of Mickey Flanagan, when he contrasts his WC roots with marriage to a MC woman and their subsequent lifestyle. Also very funny.

Pullandpush · 18/06/2022 12:56

sunglassesonthetable · 18/06/2022 12:30

keith Richards is an avid military historian apparently

like lots of old men

This made me cry 😂

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 18/06/2022 12:57

I know it won’t apply generally, but I do think the children of very successful musicians may be in a different category, academically speaking, from the children of footballers. Accomplished musicians are often very able in academic fields, too. Musical ability is often related to ditto in maths.

Brian May (Queen) was an astrophysicist, who IIRC turned down a post at Jodrell Bank in order to focus on the band.

sunja · 18/06/2022 12:59

@2356vw in reality it's quite outrageous that their combined income still has them at a slight disadvantage (in their circumstances of course). Maybe it is that a MC life is becoming more and more out of reach for a lot of people.

Do they/do they plan to private educate their DC?

Another thing on this thread that I've found interesting is that people don't seem to think designer items (Louis Vuitton, Chanel etc) seem to indicate that someone is MC. I wonder whether that is seen as for the really rich as well as for the aspirational working class?

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 13:04

@Pullandpush I suspect you're not British then if you make that incorrect assumption?! I'd beg to differ. If you'd read my previous threads, you'll see that I come from solidly MC stock. There are not that many people who can say they come from four generations (not including my DC) of university educated and professional backgrounds. And GGF who was so well off he didn't need to work despite being a trained architect (and having a bluestocking wife who was a portrait artist).

sunja · 18/06/2022 13:11

Oh how could I forget! Pret everyday for lunch when in the office

palygold · 18/06/2022 13:12

It won't matter a jot about money, to some, if you don't have the right accent, background, and don't know 'the rules' to fit in.

sunglassesonthetable · 18/06/2022 13:12

I know it won’t apply generally, but I do think the children of very successful musicians may be in a different category, academically speaking, from the children of footballers.

Please don't says things like this. Intelligence is not indicated by class.

And many footballers are WC

WombatChocolate · 18/06/2022 13:12

Again, middle class can cover those from traditional middle class backgrounds who went to Uni and now do jobs which require a degree and professional qualifications, but within the public sector might pay £35-£40k for an experienced worker. Such people in their 40s are likely to win a home, value education and depending on where they live, have 1 or 2 adults working and an income of from £35k- £80k depending on whether 2 adults work and if full time. There are far more of people in this group than those with family incomes of £150k+, or those privately educating their kids and with 2homes. However, these too are likely to be middle class.

Middle class includes a broad range.

It isn’t just income is it. Most of the middle class are pretty well educated and value education. Their levels of cultural capital vary from heaps to little.

I can think of people who are middle class who had solidly middle class upbringings, have degrees and married similar people. Sometimes one of them never really got a professional job or only did I it for a year or two. The other worked in the public sector and started on well under £30k. They bought a small property in a provincial town and now have 2 kids. They value education and extra curriculars and the environment, but their income is still well under £50k as they have 1 full time worker and another doing 1 day a week. Their extra curricular is limited to swimming lessons and Brownies because the rest is too expensive and they have a week of camping per year. Definitely middle class, though and no-one seeing them would doubt it.

Equally and also middle class is the couple who had similar upbringings and went to the same Uni and both did degrees and chose to go into finance and 2 adults worked and started on high salaries, which now give them a family income of between £150k and £350k depending on how much both adults work. They now have a decent 4 bed house in LOndon or an expensive south eastern area, plus perhaps a holiday flat in a seaside town. The kids are either at top Comps with tiny catchment areas, state grammars or Independnet Schools and have private music lessons, sports coaching and do activities which require lots of expensive kit and ferrying around. They ski yearly, spend time at the holiday flat and take another 2 holidays a year. They eat out regularly and without having to think about it and both parents are engaged in hobbies which have expensive equipment and require expensive training to become competent in it.

If you saw these 2 couples, they would sound similar. Their clothes might have some similarities although the 2nd couple have far more clothes and the latest things, whilst the first couple might keep their clothes far longer. Haircuts might be very different for the women. They talk about things they read and listen to and what the kids are up to and they both expect their kids to go to Uni, although perhaps to different types of job. Loads of things are similar and they can. Confidently chat to each other at a social occasion. Loads of similaries and all middle class…..but also big range of income and life experiences now for both them and their kids which are money related.

2356vw · 18/06/2022 13:16

sunja · 18/06/2022 12:59

@2356vw in reality it's quite outrageous that their combined income still has them at a slight disadvantage (in their circumstances of course). Maybe it is that a MC life is becoming more and more out of reach for a lot of people.

Do they/do they plan to private educate their DC?

Another thing on this thread that I've found interesting is that people don't seem to think designer items (Louis Vuitton, Chanel etc) seem to indicate that someone is MC. I wonder whether that is seen as for the really rich as well as for the aspirational working class?

No, they wont privately educate their kids - it 60k which mean a salary of 90k i.e. too expensive. so in London private schools really are the preserve of the rich but they cant even afford a naice three bed house - they simply cant raise a high enough mortgage for 1.2mil.

so i think all these threads about mc really just mean very rich people - unless people just focus on the one thing i.e. holidays or schools or naice food. It really is no longer about 'culture' or interests but hard cash family cash or otherwise

Snoopsnoggysnog · 18/06/2022 13:18

sunglassesonthetable · 18/06/2022 13:12

I know it won’t apply generally, but I do think the children of very successful musicians may be in a different category, academically speaking, from the children of footballers.

Please don't says things like this. Intelligence is not indicated by class.

And many footballers are WC

This isn’t a comment about class! You need a different kind of brain to be a successful musician to a successful footballer. Regardless of your class. It’s as simple as that.

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 13:19

@WombatChocolate precisely. You've got it spot on!

Yerroblemom1923 · 18/06/2022 13:25

Wfh
Dungarees
Wine delivery
Hello Fresh
Freddie's Flowers

sunglassesonthetable · 18/06/2022 13:27

This isn’t a comment about class! You need a different kind of brain to be a successful musician to a successful footballer. Regardless of your class. It’s as simple as that.

Yep. What relevance is it? To a thread about class. And rich made good musicians/footballers sending their kids to private schools.

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 13:29

A vicar is about one of the most traditionally respected MC professions of them all (predating the rise in status of lawyers and doctors), and yet they are paid a pittance. They would show few of the material identifiers mentioned in this thread but more of the education and cultural capital ones.

Dahlly · 18/06/2022 13:36

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 13:29

A vicar is about one of the most traditionally respected MC professions of them all (predating the rise in status of lawyers and doctors), and yet they are paid a pittance. They would show few of the material identifiers mentioned in this thread but more of the education and cultural capital ones.

Paid a pittance but often in a large vicarage, with a large garden. The upkeep of the property, inc the garden taken care of by the church

Pullandpush · 18/06/2022 13:41

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 13:04

@Pullandpush I suspect you're not British then if you make that incorrect assumption?! I'd beg to differ. If you'd read my previous threads, you'll see that I come from solidly MC stock. There are not that many people who can say they come from four generations (not including my DC) of university educated and professional backgrounds. And GGF who was so well off he didn't need to work despite being a trained architect (and having a bluestocking wife who was a portrait artist).

@LouisCatorze nope I'm solidly British & have a similar lifestyle to you by the sounds of things! However I don't class my interests or education as middle class at all! I went to state school as did my dc, live in a modest house, drive a modest car... My lifestyle is normal like how yours sounds & millions of other Brit. Caring for the environment & sustainability is not an indicator of any class @LouisCatorze it is just a sign of a responsibile citizen & those are found in every walk of life!
For me middle class is about huge income & matching lifestyle, private education & connections. It is my opinion, you sound so similar to me @LouisCatorze but I am very far from middle class!

OP posts:
Goodskin46 · 18/06/2022 13:42

Bumpsadaisie · 18/06/2022 07:57

I've noticed a thing about the upper M/c - a couple might be very ordinary in terms of income - perhaps they do jobs like music teacher/ writer / researcher - jobs which reflect their interest rather than a profession.

But they will own their house outright because they had help to buy and have been on the ladder since their 20s.

And they might send the DC to private school because the family can pay.

And when they go on holiday they holiday cheaply and go to my best man Jim's holiday place in Cornwall or auntie Susie's holiday cottage on a Scottish island, or godfather Peter who has a little cabin in snowdownia or colleague Frank who is lending them his gite in Brittany.

And their own families have a little holiday place too - and they say oh do let us know if you want to use the house any time, it's just there for anyone to use.

Which is very generous. 🙂

I know several friends and family like this. They don't have huge amounts of spare money but they have huge cultural capital and connections.

I recognise ourselves in this a bit. If when we couldn't afford holidays we stayed in home of friends anx relations in ;
Wales, Rome, New York, Spain, the French Alps and the Welsh borders.

2356vw · 18/06/2022 13:43

@WombatChocolate whilst I think both your examples are true - in London, I actually think that increasingly these two groups live pretty different lives with the couple in finance mainly socialising with their own i.e. people largely getting into industries to earn money. Due to the increasingly big gap in their finances - the mc couple on 80k household income wont be able to contribute much to the chat about bonuses, naice holidays and restaurants and tutors. Realistically most of the chatter of the finance/city/consultancy is about that rather than what they saw at the theatre. This will also be increasingly true as recession hits - city workers dont seem to be too concerned about energy prices etc - they will not be getting rid of their cleaner or holidays. Those on lightly above average incomes will be getting worried and having to economise.

2356vw · 18/06/2022 13:45

@Pullandpush interesting - how would you classify yourself?

LouisCatorze · 18/06/2022 13:48

@Dahlly that may be less the case these days than in years gone by. You often find that the church has sold off the large vicarage and that the vicar and family are more modestly housed nowadays.

Have a friend who is a CofE vicar, albeit in a less traditional 'parish' set-up than would once have been the case. They live in a modest (and modern) family home no different from any of the other houses on their road. Often the big vicarages have been sold off (think the Granchester one that Jeffrey Archer calls home, once the home of Rupert Brooke and his family including his vicar father!) to generate additional income for church coffers.

They are also high on cultural capital and very well educated (and have siblings who went to Oxbridge and other top 10 universities in the UK) but again would have none of the trappings of the type of MC lifestyle that @Pullandpush is suggesting to be the definitive one!

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