Middle class identifiers 2022

[Pullandpush]

I read a similar thread a few years ago & the main middle class markers were hummus, organic food, private education, boden, ski trips etc, farrow & ball..
Are these unchanged for 2022 or have the identifiers shifted?
Since the pandemic I've seen a rise in the "hipster" style MC especially the men, maybe the working from home has allowed them to relax into the unshaven, casual look which wasn't there a few years ago...
Private education seems to be on the wane but that may be due to the cost of living..
Any other main MC identifiers I missed?

Does one have to use the word “one” for posters to understand the difference between rhetorical questions and questions only relevant to one poster?!…

Does one have to use the word “one” for posters to understand the difference between rhetorical questions and questions only relevant to one poster?!…

Since you quoted me I answered 🤷‍♀️

@BuenaVistaAntisocialClub - I don’t think class is irrelevant at all. I think taking it to the level of discussing where people shop and what clothes they wear, or how old their car is, is not remotely healthy and entrenches stereotypes that are unhelpful and obscure who is really wielding the power, rather than trying to buy into a lifestyle or fit into a group.

I think taking it to the level of discussing where people shop and what clothes they wear, or how old their car is, is not remotely healthy and entrenches stereotypes that are unhelpful and obscure who is really wielding the power, rather than trying to buy into a lifestyle or fit into a group.

So shouldn't be discussed then?

Yes, this

And I don’t think it is helpful for a working class person to think that being middle class means wearing Boden, or going on skiing holidays.

Weird question, given that we are all discussing it. My point in the discussion is that it is unhelpful to discuss it in this way and is often used to be deliberately divisive.

Depends on the flavour of MC. The eco/rewilding types are the prime market for being barefoot, barefoot shoes, natural movement classes etc.

@justmaybenot

I’m sorry but you have completely misunderstood.

I have said those that are the ‘new rich’ mainly socialise with family. The also socialise with others they rate as rich enough. They have a smaller social circle. How do I know this? It’s my observation of my town. It may be different elsewhere.
Of these ‘new rich’, lots have their own businesses . Not all enter into professions. They all privately educate their children and now it’s moved onto the next generation. But the kids and the grandkids are not reliant on making connections and excelling at school because they have the safety net of wealth. A mc persons wealth IS their connections and education.

Weird question, given that we are all discussing it. My point in the discussion is that it is unhelpful to discuss it in this way and is often used to be deliberately divisive.

Weird? Just trying to understand what you're getting at tbh.

Who uses this to be deliberately divisive?

Private education is definitely moving out of the reach of most middle class people and many private schools now cater for the very rich (not the same as middle class at all). Where schools charge upwards of £25K for the fees, which is only part of the cost, it's just not an option any more.

Education will always be a priority for middle class people though, so certain schools become colonised by them - and they are usually supportive as parents so this all feeds into making these schools desirable. It always baffles me when people talk about 'good schools'. Schools aren't buildings -they're communities of students and families, and if those are conducive to efficient, stimulating education then, hey presto - you get a good school. But they don't need to be posh, rich or middle class - just the sort of people who prioritise education, support the teachers and the school and do all they can to help their children succeed.

I am also making the point that discussing social class at this level just serves to obscure where and how the real power is held and wielded. I don’t believe shopping in Waitrose, or going skiing (unless you like skiing), or driving an old car, or a new car, or wearing Boden, or wearing 2nd hand clothes, are going to give anyone a ticket into a social class.

Yeah, it obscures the systemic privilege underlying it, which is basically about money and influence.

A WC person who wears Boden may well be a bit better off than their WC peers, but they won't have the established capital and influence that comes from being established MC.

All the posters who say, "Well I don't know what you'd make of me, I grew up in a country house with horses, but enjoy the occasional manicure" are spectacularly missing the point. (And for all the claims about the MC prioritising education; the education purchased must be a very narrow one if it turns out people who are so unable to understand class analysis, and the impact of class on people's lives.)

I always think the stereotypes on these threads aren’t really about the middle classes at all but a niche upper middle class group. You’re not getting the prep school, skiing holidays and staff for anything less than a £250k family income and that will be a tiny percentage of the population.

The lifestyle of the more traditional middle classes eg a teacher and a nurse mid career might be £70-80k family income, likely with a lot going on mortgage/rent and/or childcare.

@sunglassesonthetable - is this the first social class discussion you have ever joined in on?! You don’t have to look far on Mumsnet to find people using their lazy social class identifiers to put people down.

Peloton
Tesla
Ooni
Soda stream, but only ever for sparkling water (never for flavoured drinks)
Pomegranate molasses
Private pilates over zoom
Urban massage
Massive houseplant addiction acquired over lockdown
UK holidays either glamping or at a luxury family hotel like Watergate Bay
Foreign holidays sking with Powder Byrne or semi-ironically going to Disneyland
Tutoring for the kids but trying to stop them telling anyone
Ocado user, but thinking of switching to the Modern Milkman, and has a specialist butcher who delivers
Subscribes to all streaming services
Made a complaint to the school during lockdown about their remote provision
Has googled "beekeeping"

Round my neck of the woods all the MC mums are driving either a Tesla or a VW van with a pop top and conversion for camping.

I suppose, if I’m honest, I subconsciously divide people into ‘middle class’ (for want of a better word) and ‘lower class’. But it has nothing to do with money. I know two people who are very rich, live in big detached houses and send their kids to private schools. However, I think of them as ‘lower class’ because they are both vulgar and ignorant. I also know someone who is in debt, rents from the housing association and lives in a sh*t neighbourhood, but I consider her ‘middle class’ because of her beautiful manners and love of reading.

For me, the big dividers are taste, manners, education, reading habits and ability to hold a civilised conversation. You can give a vulgar, ignorant oaf twenty million pounds, but he’ll still be a vulgar, ignorant oaf.

Middle class signifiers: visits art galleries, reads great literature (Nabokov, Virginia Woolf, Jane Austen, Dickens...whatever), loves beautiful things (cathedrals, antiques, the countryside), has refined manners, can hold a civilised conversation (i.e doesn’t boast or show off, listens to what you say, doesn’t talk over you, smiles, maintains eye contact, etc), never thinks about class.

Lower class signifiers: charmless, flashy, vulgar, loud, brash, pushy, pretentious, petty, unrefined, graceless, overbearing, obsessed with celebrity gossip, reads The Sun, watches Love Island, incapable of holding a conversation, never read a serious book, judges everyone by money and status.

People can talk about it if they want to do so. It is a complex issue and not just about money but other things too. I and my siblings only ever went to fee paying schools age 4 - 18 and my children and their cousins (and so far my grandchildren) but if any of my children choose a state school that is fine with me too as they are their own people and can do as they choose.

We ski because my parents kindly sent me on a ski holiday in my teens and I loved it so took my children when 3, 5 and 7 for their first (and my first since my teens) and have usually gone since other than covid. I like it because I like the mountains and snow rather than for any class reasons and most of my holidays I am trying to avoid other people entirely as I like my own company rather than seeking out other middle class people.

Walkaround raises an interesting issue about changing class. I would say my mother changed class - she went to grammar school (state grammar) in the 1940s, became a teacher, married a student doctor, bought ah ouse (almost unheard of buying a house in her family )as they p ut off children for 10 years and both worked full time to buy one. My father was also from a fairly modest house but did have a bit more social status as a child in a minor way locally. so I do think you can change class bit by bit. It probably takes a generation or two.

Interesting my student son got cornered in a jacuzzi at the gym today by an 82 year old man who talked at him for age about how he dragged himself up from nothing, no univesity, became an accountant etc and he was so proud of being a millionaire and his grand chidlren and their achievements at private school he went on and on about it in a showing off way most people don't do. My son was pleasant and chatted back but it is not really the done thing to go on about your millions so much even if you are 82. May be that was a class difference as the man made money but probably had not changed class whereas his children and certainly grandchildren will have done.

@sunglassesonthetable - is this the first social class discussion you have ever joined in on?! You don’t have to look far on Mumsnet to find people using their lazy social class identifiers to put people down.

Probably the second.

But tbh you're one of the posters pushing this discussion past the observational which is the OP.

I work in marketing/advertising and in our shallow world we think about this stuff.

@Walkaround

@HeartofAss

👌

Jilly Cooper's book 'Class' is still worth a read.

Yes, the fashions are dated, but the broad picture remains very much as she describes it

Private education is an indicator of money, not class.

@sunglassesonthetable - what relevance does actual social class have to do with marketing and why?

"Class, like sex, is in the eye of the beholder". Quote I can remember from uni 20+ years ago. At that point, I think it meant romantic relations activity as opposed to gender 😂