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Why so many ND now?

460 replies

Jumpking · 22/05/2022 07:22

Had much with 4 friends yesterday. All the ladies told me they're waiting for ASD assessments for their children.

I know so many parents of ND kids.

I don't think I'm unique.

There was around 5 or 6 ND children in my primary school growing up. Now this is per class, minimum. The children weren't in special schools, they just didn't exist in such high numbers.

What do you think has been the sea change in our society that means there are now far more ND children than there were 30 years ago?

(And it isn't because they weren't diagnosed 30 years ago, or we weren't aware... There really weren't children in my school, or the school's of friends I've discussed this with, who had sensory issues, or clothing issues, or only beige and/or dry food, or toileting issues, or obsessive interests issues or all the other ND things which are so prevalent with children today)

OP posts:
fluffycereal · 22/05/2022 10:40

@Mellowyellow222

financial incentives - both for schools and parents

2 of my DC are autistic, as am I, what the financial incentive for me? I don't understand this at all.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 22/05/2022 10:40

I hope you didn't read my posts as meaning that. That was not my intention, though I appreciate I went off on a ramble.

My point was that the kids who most need help, a diagnosis to access support can be drowned out by the sheer number of kids whose "quirkiness, lack of manners, poor socialisation" is also included. I was one of them, as was DH. But we wouldn't have benefited much from additional support. But we did need resilience to overcome family situations and our square pegness.

Still not sure that explains what I meant...

ThePenOfMyAunt · 22/05/2022 10:40

Mirrorball2022 · 22/05/2022 07:36

I was at school in the 80s/90s I can absolutely pick up a few kids I went to school with who probably were neuro divergent when I look back.

There was always the ‘odd’ kids, ones that misbehaved or created in the classroom, those who were hyper, loners, those who couldn’t keep up with work or were in low sets. Some of these probably would be diagnosed now. I suspect some others were masking too. We also had other schools where the ones who more clearly had learning difficulties/complex needs went to.

People generally are more aware and now pick up on early signs wether it’s parents, family or professionals involved.

This was my experience too.
2 of my 4 were diagnosed ASD as preschoolers. 1 also ADHD diagnosed at 7.
We're about to get another DC assessed (he's nearly 15) and I'm fairly convinced the 4th would meet the criteria too.

I think it's likely DH and I are both ND, so it's not exactly surprising are DC are.

I'm holding off getting assessed because I think it would be used against by the professionals we have to endure involved with DC ans EHE one

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

ThePenOfMyAunt · 22/05/2022 10:47

I did encounter a lot of "know better" opinions with my eldest. An acquaintance told me I just didn't know boys. She only had girls! At 2 His difficulties were visible from the moon, so I'm not sure what the deal with that was.

MarmaRell78 · 22/05/2022 10:47

Fraaahnces · 22/05/2022 07:29

  1. We know more about neurodiversity, and how it affects learning, etc. We know that most ND kids have a “toe over the line” and exhibit certain traits that if not supported, can leave them with anxiety, depression, learning, social issues, etc.

  2. Once upon a time, kids with ND traits were labeled “slow” or even “retarded.” Some were the “naughty kid that will never learn to behave.” Prisons and orphanages were full of people who would hopefully be diagnosed today and have help available.

At least 56% of the population could be diagnosed as ND. This is because it is a spectrum that includes many, many symptoms. This means that a majority of humans are ND, not NT. It keeps us interesting.

If over half% of population are ND doesn't that mean we have to change our view on NT/ND? Everyone is different, there is no normal

hellrabbitishere · 22/05/2022 10:48

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TheAntiGardener · 22/05/2022 10:49

Children all wore school uniform. No adaptations allowed due to sensory issues, and none of my friends used to moan about the clothing causing them issues.

I was at school 30+ years ago and some items of uniform caused me a lot of distress. I would never, ever have discussed it with friends - I thought I was a weirdo and just being silly. And I was deeply embarrassed. Only my parents had some idea about the anxiety it was causing, but they didn’t understand it and even if they did I don’t think they’d have considered for one moment that there was any option but to comply. We didn’t have the language or understanding we do now.

Just because it wasn’t visible does not mean it didn’t exist.

‘No adaptations allowed’ isn’t a good thing. It caused unnecessary worry and discomfort to me and I’m sure many others.

NannyOggsWhiskyStash · 22/05/2022 10:49

adhdforme · 22/05/2022 08:52

As many others have said there were probably loads of ND people in your school 30 years ago, but you just didn't know it as they went undiagnosed. ND people aren't stupid. Many are extremely clever people with university degrees and their own businesses. They've leaned over the years how to mask their issues and just to confirm with society, but it takes a mental toll on them.

ND people have always been here. Most people just didn't realise it unless their problems were debilitating.

I have always had trouble concentrating and focusing on homework and tasks, was always forgetful (could never remember names or why I went into a room / shop), procrastinated everything and would only start revising for exams a few days before and would cram everything in. I learned to mask my problems, but they've always been an issue in my life. I am awaiting an ADHD diagnosis (have been for 2yrs on the NHS. The waitlist is so long that they've only seeing adult referrals from Oct 2018 now, so in reality the waitlist is at least 4yrs!!! I'm paying to go private). An adult adhd diagnosis required evidence from childhood. Symptoms just cannot be developed in adulthood. I had to have my mum complete a form for me giving evidence and when I asked her she was surprised that I was seeking out a diagnosis. Although she agreed I had loads of the issues on the form, when she took my brother and I to a psychologist we were shown to be 'gifted and very smart' (which we both are) so she just thought the issues were normal kid things. She assumed as I got older and went to uni and have got a string of good jobs that I just grew out of it. My struggles were not and are not things I talk about. I was always told I had so much potential but that was lazy just needed to try harder. So I grew up believing I was lazy and stupid and struggled to understand why I was so different and couldn't achieve what everyone else did. I find all my issues very embarrassing and my pride gets in the way. But they impact my life everyday. Things like lateness, loosing no my train of thought, not replying to emails / texts, forgetting details & appointments, messiness around the home, over sharing, telling long winded stories, not being able to focus, can't keep up with deadlines, etc. With the pressures of 2 children and a job and running a household and trying to maintain some form of friendships it's just all coming crumbling down now.

Now that my mum knows I'm seeking out an adhd diagnosis she says my brother has the same issues and wants him to go get tested as well. My dad who is 70 has struggled with all the same issues as well and believes he's also got it but never knew either. No point now for him to seek out a diagnosis but I knew after I figured out I had ADHD that I got it from my dad (I just felt too guilty to tell him 😕). I also believe my son has it. It doesn't impact him at school much because he's learned to mask it. But it all comes out at home.

Also OP you may know loads of people with a ND condition and just have no idea. I am very embarrassed about mine and do not mention it to anyone. You many have many quirky friends or acquaintances just like me who chose not to tell you.

Just an FYI - adults who have ADHD that you may not have know about are:

John F Kennedy
Richard Branson
Jim Carey
Walt Disney
Emma Watson
Jamie Oliver
Will .i.am
Christ / Caitlyn Jenner
Channing Tatum
Michelle Rodriguez

Many people with ADHD are highly creative. So if you know someone who is their own boss/ runs their own business / does amazing crafts / cake decorating / events etc chances are they also had ADHD or are ND in another way.

We’ve always been here. We struggle every single day. You’ve just never known about it. 🙃

My god, this resounds with my experience, I actually felt a bit teary after reading it. Thanks 💐

Wideawakeandconfused · 22/05/2022 10:50

What is the point of your OP? It’s horrific that you are suggesting that it’s all made up and that we have a generation of fussy kids.

How on earth you can say that no one you went to school with had any sensory issues is utter rubbish. We’re fantastic at masking. We don’t come across as quirky as you put it. But when we got home, it all come out and it was awful. I’m so glad that most people understand more now. Not all people clearly but more and more which is all we ask for.

user1471548941 · 22/05/2022 10:52

So if you were at school with me you would not have noticed me or remembered me being ND. I was classically well behaved (I found the rules of the school environment actually useful to direct my behaviour), got good grades (photographic memory that allows me to remember long long strings of information word for word), no sensory issues (Mum sewed a ribbon inside my cardigan for me to touch, never showed anyone!), at normally (beige food packed in lunch box, much more acceptable in the 90s, no fruit/veg/anything soft). I made 1 friend in reception and remained friends with her. I looked like I had lots of friends because I was always with her and she was very sociable and made lots of other friends. They were never my friend though, I was just her add on.

I was even Head Girl of my school- watched older girls do the job and just completely imitated then so I could do the job.

Went to university in London and couldn’t believe how much I struggled to concentrate when I could hear the busy streets outside, never made a single friend, began to struggle with stress and anxiety. Spent 2 years post uni doing random jobs for 3 months here and there getting fired/quitting because I didn’t fit in. Floundered without the structure of school in my life and struggling after getting jobs based on my flawless academic record then realising I needed social skills, which were hugely lacking, to succeed. Getting told off when working in a hotel for being rude to a customer but to this day have no idea why I came across as rude- was trying to sort out something she’d requested. Romantic life was a car crash, repeatedly misread signals or got taken advantage of.

Eventually found an employer with a bit of breathing space and realised that if I wanted to stay, I needed some help. Diagnosed with autism at 24, reasonable adjustments put in place, used the diagnosis to play to my strengths and support some of my weaknesses. Open with others about having autism, needing social breaks etc. Now approaching my 4th promotion in 6 years as I have a natural aptitude for the role which is able to shine when you take away the stress of masking undiagnosed autism. Met my husband at work, am my true self in a relationship.

The first thing people say to me when I say I have autism is “you don’t look it! You may not have known these people were ND or feel like they meet criteria for diagnosis on your “perception” (or seeming misconceptions of ND) but you have absolutely no way of knowing how these people were really thinking or feeling, what they were masking, what the quiet girl in the corner would be like if she wasn’t hiding/trying to stay afloat.

My diagnosis relatively early in adulthood saved me from years of misery and was not picked up in school, nor would it have been due to my masking. Please do not invalidate the experiences of the ND anymore, we spend enough time trying to justify our existence in a world that doesn’t work for us.

Firelogbridge · 22/05/2022 10:54

@Ridingthegravytrain

I agree op. I've spoken to my husband and friends about this before too. There was one girl in my whole school who was ND and hat was due to a brain injury. Now it seems to be roughly 20% of each class in my childrens school.

^^
You aren't ND due to a brain injury. ND means neurodevelopmentally diverse, so you were born with it- it's a developmental condition, not acquired like a brain injury. Someone with a brain injury can present as ND and having worked in a specialist brain injury service we often seen paediatricians diagnosing ASD when it was the brain injury.

EcafTnuc · 22/05/2022 10:54

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Exactly, bloody kids these days. They need to bring back physical abuse, I mean, the cane, in schools. That will stop the little shits playing up and all these silly diagnoses. And while we’re at it, bring back the rampant homophobia and scare the little fuckers straight.

Much better back in the day wasn’t it?

BoDerek · 22/05/2022 10:56

Jumpking · 22/05/2022 07:45

I agree no one had heard of autism et al 30 years ago.

But I cannot remember my primary, or secondary school, having more than a handful of what were then considered "quirky" children.

Don't remember anyone refusing to eat food... School dinners were served around the tables of 8 children, with the 11yr olds cutting up pies, serving them, then stacking plates. Not a care in the world if anyone got gravy on their hands. Every child would eat most of what was given to them every day.

Children all wore school uniform. No adaptations allowed due to sensory issues, and none of my friends used to moan about the clothing causing them issues.

Exam anxiety...we all got on with it. All accepted it wasn't great, but had to do it. Didn't seem to cause breakdowns or school refusal at the time.

The growth has been phenomenal and there is absolutely no way there were at least 56% of the school population who were ND in the mid 80s.

Well then I hope you get in touch with all the specialists who work with neurodiverse people and alert them to the fact they are wrong and you Mrs Nobody of Mumsnet “just know” that there are only “a handful of quirky” children in any school and all their research is in vain.

godmum56 · 22/05/2022 10:57

MarmaRell78 · 22/05/2022 10:47

If over half% of population are ND doesn't that mean we have to change our view on NT/ND? Everyone is different, there is no normal

yup, I said that in my post too

Spudlet · 22/05/2022 10:57

30 years ago my brother was called stupid. 30 years ago, my brother was reduced to tears in order to ‘force him’ to participate in class - his teachers told our mum as if they thought this was fine. 30 years ago, he was dismissed as being ‘a bit strange’ (again, his teachers told mum this). 30 years ago, my dad would get so frustrated and angry that he would kick my brother up the stairs.

He was diagnosed at the age of 17. He left school with no qualifications and has never worked.

I’m very glad it isn’t 30 years ago.

ShandaLear · 22/05/2022 11:00

I think there was much poorer understanding of ND then, and it likely led to many many people not reaching their full potential, masking at huge personal cost, and probably a lot were (and still are) being bullied for not being the same as everyone else. Society has changed and people are hopefully becoming more confident about who they are, and won’t put up with being shamed for not fitting in. Parents are also better educated than they were 40 years ago, and better able to advocate for themselves and their children. ND does not carry the stigma it once did and that’s a good thing.

Firelogbridge · 22/05/2022 11:01

@Boymumsoymum

Are you part of the diagnostic process?

I am, and assess at least 4 children/adults per week. The DSMV 5 criteria is very clear. You have to meet certain criteria, including a question- do these difficulties impact on social, educational, occupational etc needs? . I've never diagnosed someone where their autism wasn't impacting significantly on their lives.

Mumoblue · 22/05/2022 11:03

As an adult who suspects they have ADHD, I’m very aware of the warning signs that would have lead me to be assessed if I were a child today, but in the 90s got me labelled “spacey” and “a bad listener”.

And for those asking why an adult would seek a diagnosis of ND- maybe to have some answers? I’m pretty sure of it, but without a diagnosis there’s a sneaky suspicion in my mind that maybe there’s nothing actually wrong with me and I’m just exactly what people always said I was.

Lalupita · 22/05/2022 11:05

I agree with you OP. It's definitely increasing but I'm not sure why yet. Possibly a mix of increased diagnosis, more awareness and some social factors too.
It seems to me that you can't just be a loner anymore, or have a lot of energy, or not be as clever as someone else. Every personality trait and individual difference needs a label nowadays. This then takes away from those who genuinely have autism/ADHD/learning difficulties etc.

kittensinthekitchen · 22/05/2022 11:06

that many issues should only be medicalised in terms of diagnosable as an illness or disability if they cause the person an actual problem.....

@godmum56

A person will not be given a diagnosis of ASD unless it's causing them "an actual problem". Significant impairment is part of the diagnostic criteria.

Just because you might not see the impairment, don't assume it isn't there.

Eightiesfan · 22/05/2022 11:07

My son is ND, and from young I always suspected he was on the spectrum, so when he was diagnosed with ASD it wasn’t really a shock. He most definitely is one of the ‘quirky’ kids.

I think one of the reasons why there are so many diagnosed and undiagnosed children who are ND is that as parents we are now more educated about issues concerning our children than our own parents were.

I have never had a diagnosis but I’m pretty sure I also have ASD, as I can recognise all the issues my son has both at school and socially as ones I experience when I was younger and still now as an adult. At school I was labelled lazy and a daydreamer, but half the time I literally had no idea what was going on around me. A lot of teachers today are not informed on children who are ND so I doubt many would have recognised the signs when I was a child.

As to why there are so many parents, as I said before there is more information available, but (and I might get flamed for this) I also think that there is also an element of some parents - mostly white and middle-class are self-diagnosing their children. I saw the same thing happen with Dyslexia where parents would use this as either an excuse why their child was not doing as well as their friends in school or even worse to be a badge wearing member of the ‘why my child is special’ club.

amusedbush · 22/05/2022 11:07

The attitudes toward/misinformation about developmental conditions on MN is so depressing. Whether intentional or not, the language and implications are awful.

I was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD (and dyslexia, and dyspraxia!) last year at 31. My family were stunned and talked about how they would never have guessed (even though I broached the subject of me being autistic several years ago and was roundly laughed out the room) because the only ND child at my school was a "badly behaved" boy who took ritalin, had a 1:1 and threw chairs at teachers. My auntie said they had all noticed my lifelong "quirks" but thought they were just me being me. My rigid rules about food, my hatred of unexpected noise, the overblown reaction to ever being sung Happy Birthday, the fact I refused to touch certain fabrics or wear certain clothes even as a toddler, my inability to maintain friendships, my weird collections/special interests/obsessive reading/the fact that I spoke like a wise old man as a toddler, the way I have an almost American accent even though I grew up in Edinburgh and sound nothing like anyone else around me.

In reality, my psychiatrist says I'm an absolute textbook example of a late-diagnosed female. My mum basically ran every detail of my life until I was at secondary school, where things became a lot more complex, fragmented and important so it started to unravel. All of my reports said the typical ND girl comments: "Amusedbush is very bright and capable but must focus/stop chatting/ask for help when stuck/do her homework". I've read research papers from shockingly recently concluding that boys and girls with equal support needs in terms of autism were not diagnosed like for like; boys would be diagnosed as autistic based on the presentation of their autism alone but the girls were only diagnosed when they also had a comorbid learning disability.

OP, you mention nobody having any sensory issues or problems with uniform - when I went to secondary school in 2002 and needed to wear a shirt and tie, I was MISERABLE but I couldn't articulate why. I insisted on wearing shirts several sizes too big for me because I can't bear the feeling of tight clothes or anything touching my neck. And yes, I ate my lunch without issue but that's because I had a cheese and ham sandwich every single day for almost a decade. If we were at school together, you would have no idea of my difficulties because it only really presented as me being precocious, bossy and a bit uptight.

We have always existed, it's just that we have been told to "stop doing that; sit still; stop making that silly noise; stop complaining; just eat it; give granny a cuddle; don't be rude; stop shouting; stop being so lazy; stop being overdramatic" our entire lives so we've masked to "pass" as NT. Let me tell you: masking is painful. Physically, emotionally painful and exhausting. And it never actually works - I've stamped down the ND parts of myself my entire life and I've still been bullied and laughed at and called strange/aloof/cold/unlikeable.

Since my diagnosis, my brother, my DH and I have all realised how obviously autistic my dad is. Seriously, PAINFULLY obvious. Then we look back at his dad, who apparently was a "pernickety" and "difficult" man who would have a fit of rage if anyone upset his plans (e.g. if my granny wasn't ready to go out at the agreed time) and every time he found an item of clothing he liked, he bought 5 of it.

Sorry this is so long, I hope it gives some insight.

kittensinthekitchen · 22/05/2022 11:08

Lalupita · 22/05/2022 11:05

I agree with you OP. It's definitely increasing but I'm not sure why yet. Possibly a mix of increased diagnosis, more awareness and some social factors too.
It seems to me that you can't just be a loner anymore, or have a lot of energy, or not be as clever as someone else. Every personality trait and individual difference needs a label nowadays. This then takes away from those who genuinely have autism/ADHD/learning difficulties etc.

Ffs.

Those that have a "label" (I.e. a medical diagnosis) are those who "genuinely have autism/ADHD/learning difficulties etc"

Limeseverywhere · 22/05/2022 11:08

People have always been ND and like anything else regarding mental healthcare, we are becoming more and more aware of various conditions due to more research etc.
Most of us have had to mask our neuro diversity because we have been told by parents/teachers and society at the time that our behaviours were weird or strange and not acceptable.
I have struggled since I was a very small child, I am 49 now and waiting for a diagnosis. I have masked my ‘ways’ all my life in order to fit in but have struggled immensely for around 45 years. I had many, many weird quirks as a child (and still as an adult but very few know or see that) and no one did anything to help me, I don’t blame my parents, it was the 70’s/80’s no one had heard of asd or adhd and certainly not inattentive adhd in girls and women.
Looking back I can see that my, MIL was more than likely ND and my grandfather and my mum. My BIL also seems to have many autist traits and so do most of his 5 dc but all are undiagnosed.
I, for one am very happy that ND conditions are becoming more and more recognised as I believe my 2 dc have it and I don’t want them to suffer all their lives, like I have.
I am also glad to be living right now, take a look at the long list of reasons women were shoved in mental asylums years ago. I bet many of them were ND, those poor, poor women.

SecondarySnob · 22/05/2022 11:10

I've been ND all my life.

But only found out in the last few years.

Instead I was just different and suffered for it.

Maybe have a think back to some of the kids in your class who were considered "weird" or "nerds" or "annoying"

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