Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 26

993 replies

MagicFox · 20/05/2022 09:35

Here we are, on top of our rock

OP posts:
Thread gallery
61
ScrollingLeaves · 21/05/2022 21:51

@minsmum · Today 21:19
kyivindependent.com/national/andriy-zagorodnyuk-those-saying-ukraine-cant-win-dont-understand-the-situation/

Thank you for that article.
This below was a good analogy to explain the danger of a drip drip approach to helping Ukraine, or expecting UKraine to settle for an apparent apparent ceasefire only for Russia to regroup, then continue.

Andriy Zagorodnyuk:
Let’s imagine we have a bucket of water. You can just pour the whole of the bucket onto the fire and take it down at once. But you can also get a glass and try to choke the fire with small sips of water. The same amount of water, different results. We need to avoid a situation where we get assistance in small sips. It’s a critical challenge to us now — a lot of money has been allocated, and over 40 nations have joined. Now it’s very important that we as a coalition are not afraid of winning.

RedToothBrush · 21/05/2022 21:55

Maxboot AT maxboot
Russia is as effective at sanctioning as at war fighting: “Russia also named former senators John McCain, Harry M. Reid, and Orrin G. Hatch as among the current or ex-lawmakers barred from entering the country, even though they are all dead.”

You are not telling me that the Russian secret services don't know this. Someone made a point of this or overruled someone or someone junior was too scared to raise the obvious.

TargusEasting · 21/05/2022 21:57

@Mb76
Thank you for your post. I feel reassured by you corroboration. it’s just what I gauged from old knowledge and a bit of technology.
It is incredible how they must collaborate locally - every village. We are talking about two completely different systems of growing in Ukraine. I suspect (probably know) some of the larger farms are owned by foreign companies. I would wager Germany, Scandinavian countries including Denmark. Could be wrong.
@ScrollingLeaves
I sometimes wonder if I am regarded as a load of bull here because I post about different matters and blend my own thoughts with experiences. I won’t say too much as I want to remain anonymous, but at 60 I have 45 years of doing several things by design rather than choice including missing out on stuff like university. My family have many generations of military history and a farming background, having come here from Ireland a long while ago. I will always have a deep loyalty to Ireland and its people. In this mix I have served in the army and worked in ‘the City’ (and oddly enough with Russians - can’t say whether they were nice or not, but always an air of impatience and projection of intimidation).

The thing that matters most for me is to question everything. Keep and open mind and ask inside “Why?” This is something we did as a four year old, but along the way we forgot this important tool. It’s important on these threads.

Here on just a few acres and a bit of reusable plastic (a positive use for it) we have been growing food all year, including over December and January when the light is grim. From what I understand about Ukraine, the rural folks will be able to exploit a longer growing season as it’s in a better location than here. Almost feast and famine from an intense Winter blast through to quick heat.

Might be worth googling Southern Spain and Sicily when you get a moment. You don’t even need to zoom in to see it.

That white ‘ice cap’ to the west of Almeria in Spain is glasshouses or polytunnels. If you go to the supermarket you will see Vittoria tomatoes - these are also grown under the ‘ice sheets’ on the land down to the coast (east of Vittoria, of course) in Sicily.

I have not seen similar systems in Ukraine, but they may exist. But I do see chickens. Many intensive chickens farms, but again if the locals are growing smaller intensive cash crops, have orchards and fruit bushes they will have roaming chickens. Great little machines for eating all the pests and fertilising the soil too. We wouldn’t be 8 billion people were it not for chickens, worms and bees. We depend on them.

I worry about food for poorer nations, less so for Ukraine. They need other things. Now is the time for intensive food producers in Western Europe and North America to waste less and export more staples.

Ijsbear · 21/05/2022 21:59

The Kyiv Independent, [21/05/2022 22:49]
⚡️Ukrainian troops say they destroyed Russian battalion tactical group.

The group was liquidated while attempting to cross the Siversky Donets river near the village of Serebryanka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s 30th Mechanized Brigade said. The Ukrainian soldiers said they had destroyed dozens of Russian troops and several units of equipment, as well as a pontoon bridge.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/05/2022 22:16

@Ijsbear · Today 21:59
^The Kyiv Independent, [21/05/2022 22:49]
⚡️Ukrainian troops say they destroyed Russian battalion tactical group.^

The group was liquidated while attempting to cross the Siversky Donets river near the village of Serebryanka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s 30th Mechanized Brigade said. The Ukrainian soldiers said they had destroyed dozens of Russian troops and several units of equipment, as well as a pontoon bridge.

Just to be clear, is this a second group of soldiers crossing a pontoon which UKraine has hit?

blueshoes · 21/05/2022 22:18

ScrollingLeaves · 21/05/2022 21:51

@minsmum · Today 21:19
kyivindependent.com/national/andriy-zagorodnyuk-those-saying-ukraine-cant-win-dont-understand-the-situation/

Thank you for that article.
This below was a good analogy to explain the danger of a drip drip approach to helping Ukraine, or expecting UKraine to settle for an apparent apparent ceasefire only for Russia to regroup, then continue.

Andriy Zagorodnyuk:
Let’s imagine we have a bucket of water. You can just pour the whole of the bucket onto the fire and take it down at once. But you can also get a glass and try to choke the fire with small sips of water. The same amount of water, different results. We need to avoid a situation where we get assistance in small sips. It’s a critical challenge to us now — a lot of money has been allocated, and over 40 nations have joined. Now it’s very important that we as a coalition are not afraid of winning.

100%

I am no military person but it seems obvious enough that Ukraine will achieve a decisive victory with a concentrated blast rather than bleeding the enemy to death with a thousand cuts. Every day that this war drags on means more civilian atrocities, more Ukraine infrastructure and culture being destroyed and greater risk of global food shortages that will take longer to recover than if Russia was just put to sleep.

blueshoes · 21/05/2022 22:21

TargusEating, not a load of bull at all. Quite the contrary, you provide considered and specialist insight. I always look forward to your posts (and many others' on this thread). You have an interesting life and with that your rare perspective.

MMBaranova · 21/05/2022 22:24

Yemen has been one of the first casualties in this war. Already in a precarious situation, the country has apparently depended on a Russia - Ukraine combination for grain imports, amounting to some third of its demand.

My experiences in Ukraine have tended to be urban more than rural. Where people have a wooden fence around their property there will be garden level food production. People traditionally put food away for winter and whatever might occur. Out in the countryside the fields are often massive. I have no idea how that side of farming is organised, but it certainly seems to be incredible productive. The relatives down in Kherson have a seriously large polytunnel in an area where there is a market gardening cluster.

Dionysius · 21/05/2022 22:25

I second blueshoes; always appreciate your commentary TargusEating.

BoreOfWhabylon · 21/05/2022 22:29

blueshoes · 21/05/2022 22:21

TargusEating, not a load of bull at all. Quite the contrary, you provide considered and specialist insight. I always look forward to your posts (and many others' on this thread). You have an interesting life and with that your rare perspective.

I agree. I always enjoy your posts Targus, and usually learn from them.

I really value the different perspectives and experiences posters bring to this thread.

Ijsbear · 21/05/2022 22:53

ScrollingLeaves · 21/05/2022 22:16

@Ijsbear · Today 21:59
^The Kyiv Independent, [21/05/2022 22:49]
⚡️Ukrainian troops say they destroyed Russian battalion tactical group.^

The group was liquidated while attempting to cross the Siversky Donets river near the village of Serebryanka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine’s 30th Mechanized Brigade said. The Ukrainian soldiers said they had destroyed dozens of Russian troops and several units of equipment, as well as a pontoon bridge.

Just to be clear, is this a second group of soldiers crossing a pontoon which UKraine has hit?

That's the implication. It's not clear yet.

Ijsbear · 21/05/2022 23:00

Can a russian speaker translate this clip? twitter.com/i/status/1527943485055197184

MMBaranova · 21/05/2022 23:06

The original video upload from the 30th Separate Mechanised Brigade is here:

There have been repeated Russian crossing attempts in Donbas.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/05/2022 23:11

St. Petersburg. A concert. The whole audience is chanting Fuck The War.

this for those who are saying that all Russians support the war.

MMBaranova · 21/05/2022 23:30

Yes it's effectively (but not exactly) Fuck War. A lot of the comments underneath are critical of the sentiment and the audience.

blueshoes · 21/05/2022 23:33

MMBaranova · 21/05/2022 23:30

Yes it's effectively (but not exactly) Fuck War. A lot of the comments underneath are critical of the sentiment and the audience.

MMBaranova, What sort of concert is this and who are the concert goers i.e. demographic.

But it isn't a war, is it? So maybe they are not referring to the 'special operation'.

MMBaranova · 21/05/2022 23:46

I have no idea, I just clicked through to see the tweet. The first word is Питер - Piter - which may be the band / artist.

The comments underneath make it clear the chant was about the current war.

MMBaranova · 21/05/2022 23:48

It can also be a way of saying St Petersburg. [Which it probably is.]

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/05/2022 23:54

Sorry, but “ Хуй Войне” is definitely Fuck The War and Питер has always been a way of saying St. Petersburg.

MMBaranova · 22/05/2022 00:00

Well yes, effectively, as Хуй is more or less 'Dick'.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 22/05/2022 00:05

It’s not more or less dick, it is dick.

MMBaranova · 22/05/2022 00:45

I'll leave the etymology and how words align across languages to you.

Further to the question about the performer and fan demographic, I looked for other occurrences of the video online and кис-кис came up. 'In St. Petersburg, at a concert of the punk band "Kis-Kis", which took place on May 20, the audience shouted the anti-war slogan - "* the war!" in unison' was another tweet.

Website here, and the concert date checks out, so I'll go for that:

kiskisnotdead.com/

I'll leave any further research to others. My work here is done for the night/morning.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/05/2022 01:06

@Ijsbear · Yesterday 23:00
Can a russian speaker translate this clip? twitter.com/i/status/1527943485055197184

I read through a lot of replies using translate. Many seemed to support the feeling if the chant. Someone did point out that only 20% feel this way. A few said would they have been protesting if the war had only lasted three days? Some said why didn’t they have the courage to go outside the concert and protest in the open.

Kis-Kis was mentioned in the replies so I looked it up and it is this concert in St Petersburg. It is named in another tweet showing the same video. I couldn’t copy the link but here is a screen shot.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 26
blueshoes · 22/05/2022 01:17

MagicFox · 20/05/2022 09:35

Here we are, on top of our rock

MMBaranova, thank you for the amazing research. Really appreciate it.

Kis-Kis is a female punk band. I am guessing the band is not particularly mainstream in Russia nor their audience. Like Pussy Riot? I had a poke around their website. Interesting imagery.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/05/2022 01:18

Sorry MMBaranova having spent a long time looking up comments etc I never realised you’d posted again to say it was Kis-Kis.