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Ukraine Invasion: Part 26

993 replies

MagicFox · 20/05/2022 09:35

Here we are, on top of our rock

OP posts:
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OwlsDance · 24/05/2022 15:42

Russia has not really lived in democracy, there was a brief period in the 90s where it more or less resembled it, but at the same time Russia was in deep shit economically. Then Putin came to power, economy stabilised (not through his own efforts, obviously, but Russian parliament did have some power back then). Obviously a lot of Russians then started seeing him as a saviour. And if certain things didn't improve enough, they never thought to question, because it was actively discouraged and even punished. The memory of USSR like one big happy family and the state taking care of you is still very fresh in a lot of people's minds, especially all those over 50, who grew up in that era.

Ijsbear · 24/05/2022 15:50

The memory of USSR like one big happy family and the state taking care of you is still very fresh in a lot of people's minds, especially all those over 50, who grew up in that era.

I suspect therés a fair old bit of nostalgia there.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/05/2022 16:09

This is well worth listening to. Radio 4 ^Costing the Earth
Ukraine: A War on Nature.^
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017kdc

An extraordinary fact recounted by the Ukrainian environmentalist who was speaking is that the invading Russian soldiers had pre-1986 maps of Chernobyl!

eglantine7 · 24/05/2022 16:20

Lots of Russians have escaped the country or been imprisoned or self censoring to keep safe. I do not believe the majority of Russians are pro Putin and in favour of this war.
I've just returned from an overdue visit to Family in Tehran. Do not underestimate the power of censorship. The Iranian government are no way near as capable of hiding truths as in Russia as people own satellite dishes( for decades) though officially illegal and use vpns to overcome banned websites. Still, national TV news is utterly censored and there is NO way they will reveal truths.
Please be careful not to equate the regime with the people. We have no real idea of the extent of support for the invasion within Russia. Others only see a just military operation to fight Nazis.

eglantine7 · 24/05/2022 16:22

"I suspect therés a fair old bit of nostalgia there."

Agree. I've heard Eastern Europeans even of my generations praise the unity and simple life under a Communist government and felt at least people weren't so materialistic.

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2022 16:38

eglantine7 · 24/05/2022 16:22

"I suspect therés a fair old bit of nostalgia there."

Agree. I've heard Eastern Europeans even of my generations praise the unity and simple life under a Communist government and felt at least people weren't so materialistic.

I completely understand the stuff about commercialisation. I have to say i think in the last couple of years, ive almost craved not having it.

eglantine7 · 24/05/2022 16:49

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61542365.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16534072349792&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-61542365<a class="break-all" href="https://www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61542365.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16534072349792&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-61542365" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Russians speaking out and those being silenced

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2022 16:55

lhttps://english.nv.ua/nation/ukraine-should-start-liberation-of-russian-occupied-crimea-by-late-2022-says-intelligence-chief-50244713.html

Ukraine must at least enter occupied Crimea by late 2022, says Ukrainian intelligence chief

Well thats a step up!

ScrollingLeaves · 24/05/2022 16:59

@RedToothBrush ush · Today 16:38
eglantine7
"I suspect therés a fair old bit of nostalgia there."

“Agree. I've heard Eastern Europeans even of my generations praise the unity and simple life under a Communist government and felt at least people weren't so materialistic.”

I completely understand the stuff about commercialisation. I have to say i think in the last couple of years, ive almost craved not having it.

I agree and think can sometimes bring its own sort of corruption and brainwashing, and poisons via US pharmaceutical pressures.

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2022 17:02

Euromaidan Press AT euromaidanpress
Ukraine will start building a narrow "Euro-railway" to connect its train network with EU - PM Shmyhal during Cabinet meeting

Ukraine's 1520mm railway does not connect easily w/1435mm used in most of EU, creating problems for passenger & cargo transport

OwlsDance · 24/05/2022 17:07

Russian state news claiming Ru is slowing down the "special operation" on purpose to evacuate civilians. Lots of comments from public not buying it (together with some deluded ones as usual)

Just watched an interesting video by Dmitry Potapenko, a famous Russian entrepreneur, blogger and radio presenter. He was saying that there's been a big ramp up of TV programmes "analysing" the "special operation", which shows that Russia is ramping up its spending on propaganda.

Russian tax revenues fell 18% in April from sales of goods and services, excluding gas and oil. Tax revenues from gas and oil have, however, filled in that gap.

However, the artificially strong rouble exchange rate is actually damaging the Russian coffers. They are now relaxing restrictions on exporters having to sell their currency.

Budget estimates have gone down from 1.3% of profit to 1.6% of deficit by the end of the year.

Rosstat (government statistics agency) is starting to not publish some reports and statistics. He said they haven't resorted to lying yet, but definitely started trying to conceal the true state of the economy.

eglantine7 · 24/05/2022 17:11

I walked passed the vast and opulent British Embassy on Ferdowsi Avenue, Tehran a few days ago. It was shut and there were signs saying photography is forbidden. A huge Ukraine Flag was put up.
UK - Iran relations are at a low point.
Iran's food prices doubled while I was there because of this war - Russia is now selling gas and oil to Iran's previous customers and undercutting their prices.
At the same time Iran was hoping to revive the nuclear deal and to have more opportunity for custom.
Feel so sorry for Iranians, the situation is desperate especially for the poor.
Many uprisings were brutally dealt with when people took to the streets to protest the sky rocketing food prices.
The cost of wheat will be a disaster for many and even more so for poorer nations.
A revolution is so needed but it comes at a huge cost to lives.

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2022 17:13

Samuel Ramani AT samuelramani2
Zelensky's refusal to make territorial concessions in exchange for peace is popular in Ukraine. 82% of Ukrainians support this approach.

eglantine7 · 24/05/2022 17:17

Russia continues to make vast profits from selling discounted crude oil to India and China and beyond in spite of sanctions.

Ijsbear · 24/05/2022 17:20

Totally agree about commercialism.

We need some competition, it's a good thing. But it's gone way too far. It's relentless and wearing and I don't think we are actually happier for it. put her old woman's hat on

OwlsDance thank you (and the other Russian speakers) for all your info. It's really illuminating.

Ijsbear · 24/05/2022 17:30

To warm the cockles of Potter lovers:

Ukraine NOW [English], [24/05/2022 18:10]
🇺🇦Free e-books about Harry Potter in Ukrainian have appeared in Pottermore Publishing.

Thanks J. K. Rowling💙💛

Her children's charity puts every penny they get towards the actual work. All administration and other costs are footed by her.

MagicFox · 24/05/2022 17:35

She is a good woman

OP posts:
OwlsDance · 24/05/2022 18:04

Well done Rowling!

Speaking of Harry Potter, has anyone seen this?

Voldemort painting

MagicFox · 24/05/2022 18:11

Who is George Soras? Because I don't like his Davos speech: twitter.com/billbrowder/status/1529146912166780930?s=21&t=DQNQeMYb6vFliBI3VVd6sA

OP posts:
MagicFox · 24/05/2022 18:49

Orban declares state of emergency in Hungary. This is left field, I don't know what this means: twitter.com/afp/status/1529154816290738176?s=21&t=oN3VPsAGjt4nxmyoSCFPoQ

OP posts:
Thedogissnoringagain · 24/05/2022 19:03

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at poster's request

Wannago · 24/05/2022 19:13

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn at poster's request

And, according to Orban, the source of all evil, so funny they should come up in your posts @MagicFox right after another.

This is what Wikipedia has to say en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros:

"According to Waldemar A. Nielsen, an authority on American philanthropy,[100] "[Soros] has undertaken... nothing less than to open up the once-closed communist societies of Eastern Europe to a free flow of ideas and scientific knowledge from the outside world."[101] From 1979, as an advocate of 'open societies', Soros financially supported dissidents including Poland's Solidarity movement, Charter 77 in Czechoslovakia and Andrei Sakharov in the Soviet Union.[102] In 1984, he founded his first Open Society Institute in Hungary with a budget of $3 million.[103]

Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Soros's funding has played an important role in the newly independent countries. A 2017 study found that a grant program by George Soros which awarded funding to over 28,000 scientists in the former Soviet republics shortly after the end of the Soviet Union "more than doubled publications on the margin, significantly induced scientists to remain in the science sector, and had long-lasting [beneficial] impacts."[104] His funding of pro-democratic programs in Georgia was considered by Georgian nationalists to be crucial to the success of the Rose Revolution, although Soros has said that his role has been "greatly exaggerated."[105] Alexander Lomaia, secretary of the Georgian Security Council and former Minister of Education and Science, is a former executive director of the Open Society Georgia Foundation (Soros Foundation), overseeing a staff of 50 and a budget of $2.5 million.[106]

Former Georgian foreign minister Salomé Zourabichvili wrote that institutions like the Soros Foundation were the cradle of democratization and that all the NGOs that gravitated around the Soros Foundation undeniably carried the revolution. She opines that after the revolution the Soros Foundation and the NGOs were integrated into power.[107]

Some Soros-backed pro-democracy initiatives have been banned in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.[108] Ercis Kurtulus, head of the Social Transparency Movement Association (TSHD) in Turkey, said in an interview 2006 that "Soros carried out his will in Ukraine and Georgia by using these NGOs ... Last year Russia passed a special law prohibiting NGOs from taking money from foreigners. I think this should be banned in Turkey as well."[109] In 1997, Soros closed his foundation in Belarus after it was fined $3 million by the government for "tax and currency violations." According to The New York Times 1997, the Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko has been widely criticized in the West and in Russia for his efforts to control the Belarus Soros Foundation and other independent NGOs and to suppress civil and human rights. Soros called the fines part of a campaign to "destroy independent society."[110]

In June 2009, Soros donated $100 million to Central Europe and Eastern Europe to counter the impact of the economic crisis on the poor, voluntary groups and non-government organisations.[111]

Since 2012, the Hungarian Fidesz government has labelled George Soros as an enemy of the state, due to his humanitarian and political involvement in the European refugee crisis. The government has attacked OSF, the international civil support foundation created by George Soros, and tried to revoke the licence of Central European University (Budapest) (which failed mostly due to significant public outrage).[112] In response, Soros called the government "a mafia state".[113]

As the 2018 election period started, the government introduced public posters with a photo of Soros[114] to create hostility in the general public towards him, using statements such as "Soros wants millions of migrants to live in Hungary", and "Soros wants to dismantle the border fence". The government also prepared a three-part law plan called the "Stop Soros package" (which followed other various law changes[115] in the same year, hindering the workings of several international NGOs in Hungary), which would include various steps against NGOs doing volunteer work related to the refugee crisis."

Ijsbear · 24/05/2022 19:15

George Soros is an extremely rich and philanthropic Greek whom the far right loathes.

Igotjelly · 24/05/2022 19:17

MagicFox · 24/05/2022 18:49

Orban declares state of emergency in Hungary. This is left field, I don't know what this means: twitter.com/afp/status/1529154816290738176?s=21&t=oN3VPsAGjt4nxmyoSCFPoQ

It reads as being alarming but if you look into it the Covid state of emergency was due to expire on Tuesday so essentially it’s just an extension (citing the economic impact of the Ukraine war).

Ijsbear · 24/05/2022 19:22

Thank you for that @Wannago

learning so much from this thread!

on the black side:

Euromaidan PR
@EuromaidanPR
·
7h
#Severodonetsk: The news is bad - a lot of dead civilians, intensified shelling and frequent shootings in all the outskirts of the city.

The invasion continues, the city stands, the army too, but the enemy throws the remnants of his pig-dog horde there. Let's keep our fingers...