What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

I am smiling at many of these responses, because it is such a reflection of mn. Capable independent women carving out a life for themsleves.
It is just that women like this really don't /can't do that, some skills cannot be taught.

What's such a reflection of mumsnet? The fact we aren't agreeing with you and saying how unfair it is they expect her to work when you're trying to paint her to be completely incompetent?

There have been dozens of reasonable, realistic suggestions. What even are 'women like this'?

These answers are brutal. This woman sounds vulnerable and doesn’t sound like she is, frankly, up to working in all the jobs people are saying “well I did …”.

What the hell sort of society are we if we cannot provide a benefits safety net and /or specific and targeted support for our vulnerable people?

op in some of your posts you say school hours are the barrier - and that is the reason she hasn’t got a job despite countless interviews

so solutions to that seem to be top priority

Is there an option for her to apply to be a lunchtime assistant at her child's school or a nearby school? Could she reach out to her sons school and ask? It was clear from your first post that the lady has some issues hence customer service wouldn't be appropriate for her. It's incredibly tough for someone in her situation as even if she did manage to get hired she would need to be heavily directed and closely managed. Retail is notoriously short staffed and need staff that can switch from shelving to being on the till to work in the back. This wouldn't necessarily be ideal for her.

Are there any community centres nearby looking for staff? We have a community larder that is staffed by people with additional needs. They are managed closely and can choose whether to work in the kitchen or clean tables, work on the counter.

I'm really not sure what else she could try, so much is stacked against her.

Our village school is like this - no after-school or breakfast club, no childminders who pick up there. Parents muddle through with family support, partners juggling work or a SAHP. They exist.

4 major care agencies have said they would take her on, but turned her down due to her asking for school hours.

here for example

so she is employable but the hours are the issue

Dog walking or cleaning?

You say she could only get a low paying job as though that is an obstacle to her working. It’s not, she should get a low paying job.

Also why can’t she get a customer facing role? If it’s her presentability and she refuses to change it in any way, that is really her own fault. There’s a lot of people with tattoos so unless she has horrible face tattoos or something really offensive that shouldn’t be an issue.

From the latest updates she does sound vulnerable but someone who has had children removed from them does not sound like a candidate to be working with children in a school or childcare setting at all.

Does she have a recognised learning disability? Maybe there is a charity for that disability who could help her find work? Some friends of mine work in a factory that employs people with learning difficulties, it is good work for them because as you say they can be verbally told what to do and they do it, they don't need to have many skills. It gives them security and a chance to contribute.

What about a customer services / call line job. Done from home. DS started working on his bed, with a laptop and phone. Later a desk, equipment and phone lines supplied and better pay. Moving up in the pay grade. Can be done around school drop-offs.
Also dog walking. Cleaning. Marketing is key. Join various networks and put herself about. A keen, reliable worker is valued.

This lady isn’t a typical case though is she? There are a number of solutions suggested on this thread that would work for the majority of people so it’s not her single parent status/location that are the issue. It’s the fact that she clearly has some quite significant additional needs and limitations which mean that many typical jobs are not realistic for her. That’s what’s stopping her finding suitable employment.

Someone neurotypical with basic literacy skills would be able to find something that works for them in her situation. So this isn’t a universal issue affecting all single parents, it’s quite unique to her. I don’t know what the answer is but I think you’re wrong to be framing this as a wider issue when it’s actually quite specific to this lady’s additional needs. Does she have or can she get any formal diagnoses that would change how the job centre is dealing with her?

OP - i think people struggle to understand how limited childcare is in some areas. I also find people struggle to understand that not everyone is average or above in terms of life skills and education. So many people are clustered around the mean, it comes as a surprise that some people really are below average.

The only thing i can think is a caterer in school but an assistant one in a team because she doesnt sound she could lead.

I am slightly concerned this lady has an undiagnosed condition as it sounds like her social skills are poor and her organisation skills are poor and her processing is poor. Is there a charity that can support her in getting a diagnosis? She might then get access to disability benefits and supported employment with a mentor.

I haven't RTFT but where is the child's father in all this?

I wonder if you are doing a 'befriending' role through a charity like Mind. In which case, are there no benefits the woman could claim? After all, most people don't require 'support' in this way? Is she actually fit to work and would she hold down a job?

Sounds to me like her barriers aren’t really childcare related, or travel related.

someone else in the same position would be able to make this work.

she can’t study, is unemployable and limited in hours she could work, if she managed to get a job.

But what else do you want the job centre to do ‘oh right, you claim are just are incapable of doing anything…so yeah claim benefits for your lifetime instead’

If what you say is a true reflection, I am shocked a child even lives with her. But I think she needs to start pursuing a diagnosis it’s a long road. But you can’t just say ‘well I can’t do anything so I just won’t’.

steppemum
But universal credit is assessed in 4 weekly blocks and takes into account your earned income, so working flexible hours doesn't mean that she will lose money. If she earns less for some weeks she will see a corresponding increase in her universal credit payments.
She will also have support to complete the Care Certificate, and even if she stays in that role for say 6 months, she'll be in a stronger position to seek alternative employment, if she feels that care work isn't her ideal job.
Online training can be done on a work computer at her team's office-care companies always have staff who either don't have a computer, or perhaps lack confidence to use one.
Her first few shifts will be shadowing experienced workers, and she will have double up calls, to allow her to be supervised and trained on the job (which is how carers are trained, after all!) There will also be regular hands-on training (paid) as part of her rota, e.g. manual handling; First Aid; medication etc.
Is she kind, willing to work hard and accept direction/support? If so, caring is a job she can go for.

She needs to press the job centre to help her access training. Initially basic literacy and numeracy, and investigate whether there are learning difficulties or factors like dyslexia or ADD making things more difficult for her. This is where she might need your support and advocacy.

She can then look into training in skilled work that she can do in the long term even if it will be impractical/difficult to get employment until her child is old enough to get to school and back without her. I'd suggest a trade, something that will pay more than minimum wage and could be done more flexibly/self employed in the longer term.

If her people skills aren't great could she get training to do something like joinery, roofing, plumbing, bricklaying, car mechanics, scaffolding, fork lift driving, carpet laying, window fitting etc. Those things might be more suitable and better paid than care work, cleaning, cooking etc. Many of those jobs are done by young men who are lacking in social skills and academic qualifications there is no reason why a woman can't do them. Often they even transport staff to site.

She may need to organise some form of childcare when she is ready to start working, and she should start looking at this asap in terms of making the school aware of the demand, asking childminders whether there are any prospects of doing drop off/pick up in future, enquiring with other Mums in a similar position, getting on the waiting list for other schools with better wrap around care etc. She could also consider an informal agreement with another Mum?

She should also look into major employers in her area, factories etc. See what skills are in demand, what training is available, and whether they have any schemes for childcare/transport etc that might enable her to work normal hours.

If none of that is suitable could she find an evening babysitter so she could do evening shifts shelf filling at the supermarket or office cleaning or in a restaurant/pub kitchen?

I'm sorry but she sounds like she is in the exact same boat as a huge percent of the population. Why should the tax payer pay people not to work when their kids in school?

To be honest OP I wouldn't worry, because she will be fine. The jobcentre will chivvy her into some kind of course (maybe childcare) which she will sort of do. Then she will go back to technically looking for a job, but only if someone else finds the job, gets it for her, and supports her to do it. Then something will happen to make that job not feasible, probably illness or pregnancy. This cycle will continue in various forms until she gets unofficially and then officially signed off work. At all times she will be most willing to work, but it won't quite transpire.

I don't blame the jobcentre for trying, but I would leave her to it rather than fretting for her. I don't think society is at fault either - some people just aren't made to hold down a job.

From what you've said, she is already overwhelmed by life in general, I don't think a job is going to happen successfully, somehow.

I’m a qualified nurse for twenty years, because of this reason, I’m now cleaning in between my child’s school hours. No family, no friends to help out.

Hi OP, I sympathize. It sounds like you've got a good grasp on the situation, her lack of life/work skills limit her to jobs that require childcare that she doesn't have.
If the childcare is impossible then maybe some sort of course to improve her basic skills would be useful and might keep the Jobcentre away for a bit? I suspect the difficult bit would be her wanting to improve.
Having had some experience with people with similar problems it's not as easy as people think to just "get better at things".

She doesn't sound work ready at the moment but as long as she's moving in the right direction then she'll be ok conditionality wise. Theee are a lot of barriers for her to address for sure.
She will get the majority of childcare paid for while on UC if she does manage it in the future though OP.
She'll also be better off financially doing some part time hrs.
Hopefully her work coach will work through her barriers and start by getting her on a basic skills course.
Tell her to just make sure she's recording everything activity wise and responding to messages.

why does the area have so many families with one at home?

well, massive sink council estate on the edge of town, with poor transport links and no childcare would be a start.

There have been dozens of reasonable, realistic suggestions.
not really. There have been dozens of suggestions that would work if you have childcare, an ability to organise and start your own business, or the opportunity to study. None of which apply.

Can I just say again, that she is NOT sitting back and saying I can't, quite the opposite. In the last year she has come so far in terms of being willing to try something, go for it, apply for jobs etc. I admire her determination, she has been to dozens of interviews etc.
I have encouraged her and supported her in this, and continue to do so, I recognise that she needs to get into work, and she does too. It is just such a catch 22 situation.
I think even if she could work out the wrap around care, I am not sure what she does in the holidays, although dropping off at childminders would be easier if there was no school run involved.