If you've seen someone die, what happened? (TW: trauma, loss, death, terminal illness)

[HangingOver]

This is quite difficult to write, as I have OCD and, ever since I was small, it has relentlessly latched on to the idea that if I talk about the idea of a loved one dying, write it, or even think the words, that it will somehow cause it to happen and it will be my fault. Therefore, like a lot of people, I imagine, I try to completely avoid talking or thinking about it at all, and if you have similar issues, I'm warning you in advance this thread will upset you.

But here goes, inspired by all the talk about dear Deborah James and her latest news, I wanted to try to talk about it becasue I really, really fear death and never talk about it with anyone IRL.

The thing that got me thinking this morning was a very clever and kind sounding palliative care doctor on Radio Five Live this morning talking about what generally happens at the end of someone's life in a hospice. She made it sound quite gentle, slow and peaceful and made sure to point out that physiological changes, such as changes in breathing patterns etc. aren't signs of distress, they're more involuntary noises of unconsciousness that the person doesn't know they're making (like when you snore, I guess).

I know she's generalising and of course this is what most people want to hear...and perhaps it is what happens for a lot of people...but that wasn't my experience of losing my Mum AT ALL. At least, it was up to a point, but at the actual moment of death, having been unconscious for many many days, she bloody 'woke up', for about 30 seconds. She appeared to be crying (or at least her eyes were heavily watering) and basically suffocated in front of us while seeming to stare at me with a terrified look in her eyes.

It was so, so, so bloody awful and I will never get over it. I can still see it in my mind's eye with absolute clarity. I feel so so sorry for what she must have been feeling in that moment. I've spoken to two friends who also lost a parent who was about the same age (60-ish) and they have said the same thing; and also said that they weren't aware this was a thing that happened and it was an awful shock.

So what gives? Were our relatives just unlucky or is this actually more common than people realise? Or is it actually all purely physical and she wouldn't have know anything clutching at straws-

I've googled it but most people seem to refer to a 'non-peaceful death' as one where the person was very upset towards/about the end of their life, rather than this 'waking up' thing.

Sorry in advance for starting possibly the most depressing and awful thread imaginable! I just find it so difficult to talk to anyone IRL about becasue of aforementioned problems (this has taken a long time to write as you can imagine!!)

My uncle died of lung cancer, it was horrible to witness. Although he was terminal his death wasn't expected imminently. He was in hospital as an outpatient and just about to leave, I'd just arrived to give them a lift home. He was sitting down and gave two gentle little coughs, this ruptured something and he suddenly started bring up pints of blood, all over him, on the floor and on my aunt. He fell to the floor and drowned in his own blood, in that his lungs filled with blood and he couldn't breathe.

I am so sorry for your loss, it sounds like your OH had a very peaceful death with all his most loved ones with him in those last lovely moments.

My mum died really suddenly very recently. The nurse said she turned away from her and she died. They attempted cpr but she was gone. I hope it really was as quick as they say and that she didn't know. We weren't allowed in before because of covid, but we were allowed in afterwards. I was surprised by how 'dead' a dead body looks. I thought it would look like sleeping, and it does not.

@VintageGibbon your Dads in his happy place…
OP sending love, please access counselling xxx

I'm a nurse and have a huge passion for palliative/end of life care. You literally have once chance to get it right. For both the person and the family! I can't stand poorly managed pain or distress at end of life. Mouth care is another big bugbear for me.
in terms of actual deaths I have witnessed loads. Generally Breathing gets shallower and shallower until it stops. There has been the odd one that will be pulling at clothes/fidgeting but generally they are given medication to sedate them to allow for a peaceful pacing. I think that the pulling ect they are unaware/involuntary to a degree due to the medicines so please don't think that your loved one died scared.

My husband was with his grandmother when she passed away, he stayed by her bedside all night. Then he told her he was going to have a little sleep but that he was there, a few hours later something woke him. He looked at her and breathing was shallow, so he called his mum who was asleep upstairs. They both sat with her and she quietly slipped away. My husband said it was perfect, even though it seems like the wrong word, but it was.

on the other hand, my mum suffered a massive heart attack recently. Thankfully the paramedics brought her back but witnessing that and watching her leave me for a few seconds was the worst experience of my life. I’m so grateful she survived but I must admit I’m still traumatised at watching her go completely stiff and lifeless. I hug her so much tighter whenever i see her x

I wonder if it depends on what medical intervention is given. My dad who had COPD was struggling to breathe and an a fair bit of distress. The nurse told me she would give him pain relief (morphine) and he would go to sleep. He never woke up and died a few hours later. To my mind I suspect he was given enough of a dose that he wouldn’t be able to wake up. Tbh I was relieved as I didn’t want him to suffer. 😔

I watched my grandmother die. She was extremely old, but we weren't expecting her to go at that time. She suddenly went downhill in a matter of hours and died 10 days later.

In the intervening 10 days she was in and out of consciousness. At one point she rallied and had a perfectly sensible discussion about some very current (but completely inconsequential) matters.

She was in pain, and for some reason I don't fully understand there seemed to be nothing available between paracetamol and morphine. She was given end of life medications - morphine, something to lessen the death rattle, and a sedative.

At the actual moment of death, there was a death rattle and had been for maybe 24 hours beforehand. It's not a sound you forget in a hurry - like an awful gurgling version of snoring would be the best way I could describe it, though they say the dying aren't aware of it. Her breaths seemed to get less frequent. Then, all of a sudden her breathing changed, the death rattle suddenly stopped, and after a couple of minutes it stopped altogether [I've since read that the breathing change would have been when her heart stopped and it was reflex agonal gasping not true breathing].

And then she was just... unnaturally still. There's always a little bit of movement in a human... but not once they've died, and I found it a bit jarring. She no longer looked like her at that moment - I'm no believer in an afterlife but if I was then I would say that you could see her soul had departed.

Thanks again for everyone's stories....me and the cat have just finished reading every one.

I've just seen Deborah James has been made a Dame.

I was with my mom when she died. She was 88 and I was 56. She had lived with us for 2 years as she had onset dementia.
She became ill and we knew she was going to die within a few days.
She slept a lot.
On the night that it was obvious she would die, I decided to sleep in the in bed with her so that she would not die alone, although it was obvious that all intents and purposes she did not know that I was there.
As the night progressed her breaths got further and further apart to the point where she was taking only one breath every minute, and then one breath every couple of minutes.
Finally, she took a breath and then she didn’t breathe again.
Previously I thought it would be horrific to be with someone as they died.
But to be honest, it wasn’t awful at all. I now realise that I feel very privileged to have been with my mum as she died.
To be honest, I hope that when I die, it will be as peaceful as my mum’s was.

The reality is its the morphine really that makes them pass peacefully esp in the elderly and why not. Dying 'naturally' is not really possible without drugs. I want the drugs for me and for sake of anyone watching me❤️

Honestly, one of the most traumatic experiences of my life was watching a family member die at home aged 39 of terminal ovarian cancer.

The whole event is imprinted in my mind.

Despite Dr's visiting regularly to give pain meds. It was not peaceful.

The screaming, the crying, the vomiting. The sheer look of terror on her face.

Then when she did curl up in the bed and her breathing stopped. 999 and my immediate family were screaming at me to begin CPR. But little did they know this much loved family member of mine had said in private to me "let me go, don't bring me back" and I replied "I promise I won't"

So I stood there crying refusing to begin CPR. 999 handler demanding it, my own mother and grandmother begging me, clinging on to me.

And I just kept shaking my head saying "no, I can't, I promised".

My thoughts and sympathy is with you all.

My mum declined pretty quickly over one night (I suppose I am grateful for that). She was awake when we got to the hospital and fully coherent and the doctor said there was nothing else they could do. That took some time to get my head round.

Anyway, she slipped into an unconscious state as the night progressed, and then at around 6am, she was calling for her mum and seemed uncomfortable. Morphine administered at about 6.30. At 07.05, after she'd been asleep most of the night, she took both my sister's and my hand and pulled us close to her. She said she was sorry and I whispered into her ear that I loved her, I thanked her for everything and I told her to go. She did. A tear ran down her cheek and stopped just after her cheek bone. It developed some sort of a film over it. It was very weird.

I know for a fact my beautiful mum didn't want to leave us. She was 47 and knew her kids needed her. I think that was the most painful part for her during her cancer journey.

Apart from this, I think that she dealt with all the physical pain quietly, and her actual end of life was not traumatic, although her death was extremely traumatic and painful for us. 20 years later, I've still just cried writing this.

Paramedic here. Seen lots, all different ages from 4 days to over a 100. Some very traumatic and awful, some very peaceful and everything in between. Circumstances and environment play a significant part. Human touch is important. If you can hold their hand or stroke their head do it.

@Neverendingdust I have recently lost my dad to cancer and your experience mirrors mine exactly. The final hours may have been peaceful but the days leading up to it were traumatic and exhausting. There were two of us taking shifts and I often wonder how one person would manage on there own. I’m still trying to process it all now.

I watched my grandad die, he had heavy, laboured breathing for around two hours mainly focusing on a point in the ceiling. In the moments just before death he looked directly at my dad who was sat next to me and a tear ran down his cheek. It was heartbreaking but I think peaceful and the tear just something that happens. We talked to him all the way through the last couple of hours about good times etc.

i’ve witnessed a few deaths all of very ill people. They all slept and it appeared peaceful. Two of them had a brief moment of lucidity. My grandmother just opened her eyes, looked at her family gathered and took her last breath.

My grandfather who had slept for days with terminal lung cancer and we didn’t expect him to last the hour . He woke up despite heavy morphine, he couldn’t clearly speak but he took hold of my hand in both of his and laid it on his heart with all the strength he’d displayed as I grew up. He held my hand so tightly you’d never have thought he was ill let alone moments from dying. He was so
peaceful and calm but that movement and that moment was so determined and it was the only way he could let me know he loved
me and I knew he was at peace with what was happening.

my fil died very physically peacefully but immediately afterwards there was this really strange sense in the room that he wasn’t happy about it and he wasn’t ready for it. His family were all bound in grief but I hadn’t known them very long so I stood back and observed. They all grieved but with his final
breath I just got this sense of being seriously pissed off. It kind of summed up the man really.

My auntie passed away 8 weeks ago. She was making roast beef Sunday dinner for her and my uncle and she tasted the meat as she was dishing up, choked and ran from room to room in a panic. My uncle has dementia and Parkinson’s disease and couldn’t save her, couldn’t phone for an ambulance or dislodge the meat. By chance their daughter called my aunties mobile and my uncle managed to answer the call and shouted that her mum was choking. My cousin called an ambulance and they arrived in minutes but it was too late. She was only 64. Such a sad shock.

My late dp had a horrific death, he had been admitted a week earlier with End stage liver disease, they gave him 48 hours to live. 4 days later he had a massive seizure because the hospital hadn't given him anti seizure medication to counteract the alcohol withdrawal, he was put in to an induced coma in ITU. 36 hours later they weaned him off sedation, by the afternoon he was sat up in bed cleaning his teeth, the doctor said they may be able to get him home as his liver had improved slightly. The next morning he started being very agitated saying he was frightened & could they get his dad, he started coughing up blood, his lungs were filling up with it, they left him 4 hours without sedation & didn't give him anything until the last hour before he died. It's made me a massive supporter of dignity in dying & assisted death, I hope before my time comes that they have changed the laws in this country so that people who are terminally ill don't have to suffer, can have a peaceful end surrounded by loved ones at a time & place of their choice. I also want this so my loves ones don't have to sit & watch me suffer.

Thanks so much for explaining that - it’s comforting for sure.

Firstly, hugs to all those who have regrets or bad memories from the passing of a loved one.
I've witnessed two strangers die unexpectedly.
The first was a man walking a golf course while his mates played. On the final fairway, he collapsed in front of us and chaos ensued; nobody had a mobile phone, I called an ambulance from the clubhouse and gave detailed instructions on our location, half an hour later it arrived having gone to a different entrance, the driver was grumpy (maybe at the end of a long shift?) and minimal effort was made to help the casualty who was probably already past saving. Some distress and frustration afterwards came from the realisation that not everyone can be saved and from 'first-aiders' detailing different courses of action depending upon when and where they had done their training.
The second death was at London Bridge station, on my way back from work. I caught the eye of a slim, attractive middle-aged woman. She was leaning against a pillar, holding a can of cola and her eyes suddenly appeared pale and glassy. Her knees buckled, she slumped to the floor, banging her head on the paved floor. Another man called for an ambulance, I ran in search of help and found a London Underground worker who asked questions about the location and then told me that it was a National Rail issue. Returning to the woman, she was being attended to by passing medics on their way from Guy's Hospital. With her coat and blouse open and her bra removed, two people had to be 'dissuaded' from taking photographs. After CPR and six attempts with the defibrillator she was declared dead. Me and the man who had called paramedics were surprised that nobody wanted a witness statement, but I guess that a lot of people die in public in London every day.
Both had a significant impact on me, and after the reflection that followed, when my friend's father was in the final days of terminal cancer, I was grateful for the opportunity to write to him and his wife and thank them both for the help they'd given me over the years. I'd encourage anyone to speak to the dying if they feel able, even if the person is asleep or comatose - it is cathartic.

@HangingOver my mum's death was almost exactly as you described. The sitting bolt upright in bed after days of virtually being asleep. The terrified look, the sound of choking. I definitely had some traumatic flashbacks afterwards for a long time. It's 4 years ago now, and I can still recall it so vividly.

It was dreadful. No other way of describing it.

Coffee ground they call it I think xxx

Mum, she'd been in hospital for weeks, the doctors trying in vain to keep the fluid off her failing heart and lungs. Eventually they said her kidneys had failed and there was nothing more they could do.
But oddly there was more than a week before the ward finally contacted the palliative care team and started talking about getting her home. I wonder if TBH they had doubts about whether she could be kept as comfortable at home as she was in hospital - with nurses right there. Fair enough if so.
I remember, her legs were so swollen a day or two before she died that they more or less burst. It didn't seem to hurt, but I thought, oh my poor love, this is no life for you.
One of those moments where you know that if they were a dog you'd have called the vet in already.

The palliative care nurse was overheard outside her room, quietly discussing whether she would last the weekend. She'd already got Mum unhooked from the heart monitoring machines and she was in her own side room "due to diarrhoea" ("It's because I'm dying" Mum said, if I recall right). There was a big picture/wall sticker on the wall opposite the foot of her bed showing an open window with fields and trees beyond, which we all made fun of.

I was expecting Mum to eventually slip into a coma and then slip away, which had happened with my FiL many years before.
But, inn the end, it happened quickly. We'd gone out the room so the nurses could help her use the toilet, and they came running to get us a minute or two later. (I think the failed kidneys meant her heart rhythms had just gone completely haywire). When I got back in the room she wasn't conscious and was slipping sideways off her pillows. They'd whacked an oxygen mask on her. One of the nurses, bless him, was very upfront and told us that this was the end. The other nurse sprinted downstairs to fetch my OH back from his snack run to the canteen.
We held her hands and eased her down onto her back and she just slipped away. I remember looking down at her poor, poor legs and seeing them turn purple and knowing that her heart had stopped.

Her partner eventually went home, and my OH was elsewhere. My memories of that day aren't upsetting actually but they are very fragmentary. I'm not sure where he'd gone, perhaps just walking Mum's partner back to his car? Anyway I was able to sit with her a bit and talk to her.

A doctor turned up - not surprisingly there was a bit of a wait as his primary duties were with the live patients - and did the final checks on Mum. I remember him talking to Mum gently just as though she were still with us. I shall never forget the kindness of the nurses and doctors that day.