If you've seen someone die, what happened? (TW: trauma, loss, death, terminal illness)

[HangingOver]

This is quite difficult to write, as I have OCD and, ever since I was small, it has relentlessly latched on to the idea that if I talk about the idea of a loved one dying, write it, or even think the words, that it will somehow cause it to happen and it will be my fault. Therefore, like a lot of people, I imagine, I try to completely avoid talking or thinking about it at all, and if you have similar issues, I'm warning you in advance this thread will upset you.

But here goes, inspired by all the talk about dear Deborah James and her latest news, I wanted to try to talk about it becasue I really, really fear death and never talk about it with anyone IRL.

The thing that got me thinking this morning was a very clever and kind sounding palliative care doctor on Radio Five Live this morning talking about what generally happens at the end of someone's life in a hospice. She made it sound quite gentle, slow and peaceful and made sure to point out that physiological changes, such as changes in breathing patterns etc. aren't signs of distress, they're more involuntary noises of unconsciousness that the person doesn't know they're making (like when you snore, I guess).

I know she's generalising and of course this is what most people want to hear...and perhaps it is what happens for a lot of people...but that wasn't my experience of losing my Mum AT ALL. At least, it was up to a point, but at the actual moment of death, having been unconscious for many many days, she bloody 'woke up', for about 30 seconds. She appeared to be crying (or at least her eyes were heavily watering) and basically suffocated in front of us while seeming to stare at me with a terrified look in her eyes.

It was so, so, so bloody awful and I will never get over it. I can still see it in my mind's eye with absolute clarity. I feel so so sorry for what she must have been feeling in that moment. I've spoken to two friends who also lost a parent who was about the same age (60-ish) and they have said the same thing; and also said that they weren't aware this was a thing that happened and it was an awful shock.

So what gives? Were our relatives just unlucky or is this actually more common than people realise? Or is it actually all purely physical and she wouldn't have know anything clutching at straws-

I've googled it but most people seem to refer to a 'non-peaceful death' as one where the person was very upset towards/about the end of their life, rather than this 'waking up' thing.

Sorry in advance for starting possibly the most depressing and awful thread imaginable! I just find it so difficult to talk to anyone IRL about becasue of aforementioned problems (this has taken a long time to write as you can imagine!!)

a peaceful death is definitely not a universal experience. Two people I know have had parents die of brain cancer and they were agitated until the very end, with hallucinations, fits and a lot of unpleasant symptoms, which sounds horrific.

sorry to all those whose loved ones have not had the death they would have wanted

I was with my Dad when he died in hospital. I was diagnosed with PTSD after as his death was so very traumatic. My lovely Dad died screaming and the bastard doctor that I begged to help him walked away from me. I hate that man and I hope he dies screaming and in agony just like me Dad did

This is very similar to my experience with my mum.

The day she died of bowel cancer I’m sure her bowel perforated, she had Crohn’s disease as well and her stomach had been very distended for several days leading up to her death. She was unable to breathe properly and was very agitated and I’m sure she was “aware” despite the syringe driver. When I last saw her she was lying there, open mouthed, eyes staring and making awful noises - not the “death rattle” like my Gran had, but some sort of deep angry moan, like she was so angry and in pain. It will stay with me always. I think the medication they give people is as much for our benefit as much as anything else to be honest.

The deaths I have witnessed were very peaceful. Asleep, slowly slipping away. Shallow breathing with signs of laboured breathing - wheezing, grunting noises. Pauses between breathing when I thought perhaps they had passed only for them to breathe once more, until it just stopped.

I was a child with the first. So I just kind of accepted anything. I think as we age, we think more deeply.

That does sound frightening op and also think therapy could be beneficial. I am not sure your mum was really aware of what was going on. The people, who I saw died did wake up from time to time - they were asleep. In the end, they didn’t really know what was going on.

I've watched and been there are two loved ones have died. Still upsets me to think about it too long. But they didn't seem to be in pain, they both had a lot of morphine in the last few days. One aged 72, one only 33 both cancer.

My dad died in 2019 from liver disease.
He was in hospital again, I came up after work to see him, he ate a solero, and the Doctor called me and my sister into a room to be told there was no further treatment options available.
He went to sleep, and basically slept/snored for three days. He was terrified of death, so we decided against moving him to the hospice. We stayed in the room with him, kept his mouth wet, and at one point he sleepily ate some cornflakes i fed him.
We had a priest come in, and we had all our damily squashed into the room as we chatted and laughed and listened to music.
His breathing had started to change on day 3.
All of a sudden his sister, my aunt, recognised something was happening.
I took my Dads hand, and said 'Dad, don't be scared. Nan and Grandad are waiting for you, go and have a pint.'
And then he went with the next breath.

And I cant explain it, but I knew he was gone. His body was no different from his jacket, or his shoes. He had suffered immensely the last few year, hated what his body and life had become. If people knew the true repercussions from liver disease, they wouldn't drink anymore. I don't.

My nan was also in palliative care at home, had been talking to her long deceased husband for a few days.
One by one family went in to say their goodbyes, and as the last person left, she passed on once they had left the room.

Both passings give me a lot of peace and comfort, and I am forever grateful we had them pre-covid.

I was with my step father when he died as a result of liver mets after bowel cancer. He had been sleeping for days, a result of medication he was being given. He was looked after by Marie Curie nurses who were wonderful and kept him clean, comfortable & ,as far as I could tell, pain free. He just seemed to drift off - my sister who was also there was chatting away to him and then turned to me and said "I think he's stopped breathing". It was very peaceful.

My relative's a carer. They've seen the choking/drowning type death a few times before, as well as the peaceful ones. They said didn't believe that the patient was actually lucid/aware at the time of the 'choking', although it's more disturbing for loved ones to watch.

Thanks so much for writing everyone - wow, what a lot of amazing sharing.

mummymathsteacher huge well done for writing. OCD fist bump from me. Nothing will happen as a result of your thoughts or words, or mine, or anyone's

So it sounds like a bit if a mixed bag. I'm sorry to all those that are still traumatised.

To those asking, I had a lot of grief counselling after Mum died but I think really what I need is specific OCD therapy as that seems to be the never ending thorn in my side that insists on bringing these memories back up.

Just so this thread isn't all doom and gloom, I will share with you two things:

1. I have had midazolam twice for a very fiddley operation where I had to keep still. It was at a lower dose than what someone on a driver would have and I honestly swear to god the room could have been on fire and both my legs could have been being amputated and I would not care ONE BIT. It was like the bit of my brain capable of making anxious thoughts had been completely switched off. I find this very comforting when thinking about end of life care.

2. I will tell you something funny that happened just after DM went. After she died we did the sitting quietly by the bedside for about 30 mins, "taking as much time as you need" etc., as you do....then went to sit in the family room to decide what to do next. We decided to go home and have breakfast, as it was 6am and the care home was starting to wake up. Unfortunately, as we'd been keeping a rotating vigil for the best part of the last 2 months, I realised as we were leaving the building that I'd obviously left my phone, keys, charger, handbag and credit cards in DMs little room. So after the very solemn farewell we'd just done, I then had to unceremoniously go back into the room, switch on the light and say to her body, "Sorry Mum, just forgot my bag!". I was able to laugh about it and I think she would have found it very funny too.

My mum's palliative care death was so traumatic that I still have PTSD from it to this day. Watching my mother die of thirst before my eyes over weeks broke me in a way that I'll never recover from. And nobody offered hospice care, we were left to our own devices most of the time. A nurse liked their head in the door once a day or so but it was up to us to call and say 'Er, she could do with some better pain drugs' and such. We had absolutely no idea what we were doing.

Her death was ultimately a relief for me because that fortnight prior was a fucking shitshow.

My dad was suffering from cancer and had been brought home from the hospital into the care of Marie Curie nurses.
When he died there was only me and mum there, he had spent the day and previous night breathing shallowly, by that evening he was getting slightly agitated, when the moment came he gasped a couple of times, then his eyes rolled back and that was it, he was gone.
I just missed my mum, she'd had a heart attack in hospital but she didn't look peaceful like my dad did, in a way I'm glad as I think seeing her suffering would have broken me.

Pauses between breathing when I thought perhaps they had passed only for them to breathe once more, until it just stopped.

I didn't find this peaceful, but torturous. Every gap we hoped that was it, for about 3 days.

I watched my mother die in hospital; she had had severe asthma for years which ended in COPD. She was given morphine for comfort (which I bloody well hope worked) and appeared to be unconcious. Her skin colour changed and she went very still.

Was she peaceful - to this day I cant say. It look me a long, long time to get over.

I was with my FIL when he died in hospital, after a very quick diagnosis of cancer. He was in a room with his loved ones, window open and the warmth of the sun shining on him. He was unconscious, and the nurses came in every now and again to make sure he wasn't in pain. His breathing got longer between breathes until it was no more. Very peaceful but very upsetting for everyone around him.

DH and I missed MIL's death within minutes, but we were assured that a nurse sat with her before, and that she never woke. She looked as peaceful as FIL afterwards.

Yes I've heard this. Sounds like what happened with my nan.

I've not been with anyone when they've passed but whilst working as a junior in a hairdresser,we had a regular old lady come in for a perm. She was dosing off through out having her rollers put in. The old ladies would often fall asleep under the dryer so we were used to it. The old lady having the perm passed so peacefully. We got a lovely letter from her son saying how grateful he was that she was amongst friends. She lived alone so may not have been found for days.

I watched my dad die.

He had been ill a long time and we knew it was coming. For the last couple of weeks he was bed ridden and couldn't eat or drink so was just a waiting game really.

The last 24 hours or so we just sat keeping checking if he was breathing, it was awful but also my family (my dad especially) have a pretty morbid sense of humour and it helped us a lot.

I spent a lot of time in those last days googling how we'd know so I knew about the panting type breathing. So once that started my mum and I held his hands and stroked his face and spoke to him.

A couple of times he stopped breathing only to then do a big gasp as I was kissing his head and make me jump out of my skin.

So that was quite unnerving, but thankfully I expected it. It's a natural reaction of the lungs/body to do those big breaths rather than the individual being in any distress. I'm thankful I knew that.

Did mean also that then when he did stop we weren't 100% if he was gone, and I'd read that people can still hear for a few minutes so I'd said to my mum maybe we shouldn't like start wailing or whatever. So we just sort of sat around until we were 100%.

Such a surreal day now to me that it happened. I'm grateful that I was there and I was peaceful but I also feel like really I was in such a different state of mind that it doesn't feel real and I don't really believe he's gone. (Has only been a few months)

Not sure if that's normal or not. I don't know. I sometimes wonder if I have awful trauma pent up of seeing him die and then him being dead just laid in the living room while I phoned the nurses etc. He looked so unlike him at the end, it wasn't nice. But also I hope so go with people I love holding my hand.

Im so sorry it was so hard for you OP. What I've learned is how similar birth and death are. Really no two are the same, you can't anticipate when or how it's going to play out. X

My grandmother would come to stay with us when ill. On the last occasion, we found her in bed in the morning perfectly still as if asleep. No unruly bedcovering or tipped up glasses on the side table for example. Unlike previous occasions, this time her handbag held her birth certificate, national insurance card, her Will, premium bonds and other paperwork. When she came that afternoon, she knew she was going to die.

The last moments depend on a lot of things, but mainly the nature of the illness and the quality of the palliative care.

When I was last in hospital the person in the bed next to me died within a two hour period on their own. I know because they said goodnight to me around 10pm and at around midnight a team came in to move them out and my nurse said they had passed away. I had been up reading my book and I did not hear a thing.

Hi OP, I am lucky in that I have no had the experience of seeing somebody die, but I couldn't not comment on this:

the idea that if I talk about the idea of a loved one dying, write it, or even think the words, that it will somehow cause it to happen and it will be my fault.

I too have this fear, although it is better controlled these days. For me it comes from my mum, when I was younger she discovered the idea of manifestation/"the secret", where if bad things happen it's because you have thought them too much and the secret to everything going well is to think positive thoughts. I've found it so damaging because I also got into a state where I was afraid to even think something in case it comes true. Anyway, I have been able to recover a bit by understanding that my mind is really like a completely safe place to explore scary things, that I can think the most awful thing in the world and it won't happen. It's safe in my brain. I realise that this kind of thing probably won't be enough to combat full-blown OCD, but I wanted you to know you're not alone in these thoughts and feelings.

Sorry Wanda and Flamingo, I know this is not very nice, but could it have been fecal vomit? I read a book with a character dying of cancer and this happened to that character.

When my mum passed she was on morphine at the time, she just looked like she was sleeping and then there was a slight noise from her throat and she’d passed, very peacefully.
My aunt died fairly recently, her breathing was very loud, almost like cries of pain, she seemed distressed but too frail to talk or communicate but I could see it in her eyes. I talked with her about all the lovely things we’d done and she had done throughout her life, unsure if she could understand any of what I was saying. I left her to go and get some food and had planned on returning to spend the night with her but around 30 minutes after I left she died.
The care home staff said she waited until I’d left because aunt knew seeing her die would upset me so much and because aunt was a very private person.
I don’t know if they said that just to comfort me or if that’s true.
I feel guilty for not being with her when she died.

I lost my mum last year. She was cared for wonderfully in a hospice. She was unconscious for the last 4 or 5 days, and she was heavily dosed with morphine. But she fought so hard for every breath. We realised that she had gone by the silence. At the time I felt the shock that she'd actually gone, but mixed with relief that she wasn't having to fight any more. I keep replaying her last moments in my mind, which is not healthy. I said to my sister that the sanitised Hollywood version of death from cancer, where the mum is wan but ethereally beautiful, and she drifts away to the sounds of a string quartet in a sun-kissed room, are so far from reality. But I'm glad I was there, that she wasn't alone and that I could touch her and kiss her and say goodbye.

My father was in a coma and just stopped breathing. Same with my mother - she was in and out of consciousness but then just stopped. No dramatic death rattle or anything. My dad did 'wake up' a couple days previously which was a bit freaky as we had been in a coma and we had been expecting him to go for a few days - he looked at me and smiled. But soon he was under again. Then a couple days later was gone. My dad was in hospital my mother was at home.

Sorry - no idea. But I'd also be interested to know. x

My husband died suddenly but peacefully in January. He sat down in a chair and just slipped away. He looked like he was sleeping. Our GP told me that he had the most peaceful death possible (due to the specific health issue) and he would not have been aware that he was dying. I'm glad that if that was his time to go, then he left the way he did.

Graham Norton has spoken about his near death experience after traumatically being stabbed in his early 20s. So a different experience to a long illness, but he was very close to death and knew that he was.

A stranger held his hand in this moment and he said it was the most important thing to have that human touch at the time you are dying. He didn’t even know this person but said it was so comforting and important. I thought that was beautiful and just shows what a difference being there can make to someone. I felt a similar sense of comfort when the midwife held my hand during the scary transition bit of labour.

Graham was lucky to live to tell the tale and he said it made him more go-getting and means he’s not really afraid of anything. Coming close to death and feeling that extreme fear, means that he has lived a fearless life. Amazing!