If you've seen someone die, what happened? (TW: trauma, loss, death, terminal illness)

[HangingOver]

This is quite difficult to write, as I have OCD and, ever since I was small, it has relentlessly latched on to the idea that if I talk about the idea of a loved one dying, write it, or even think the words, that it will somehow cause it to happen and it will be my fault. Therefore, like a lot of people, I imagine, I try to completely avoid talking or thinking about it at all, and if you have similar issues, I'm warning you in advance this thread will upset you.

But here goes, inspired by all the talk about dear Deborah James and her latest news, I wanted to try to talk about it becasue I really, really fear death and never talk about it with anyone IRL.

The thing that got me thinking this morning was a very clever and kind sounding palliative care doctor on Radio Five Live this morning talking about what generally happens at the end of someone's life in a hospice. She made it sound quite gentle, slow and peaceful and made sure to point out that physiological changes, such as changes in breathing patterns etc. aren't signs of distress, they're more involuntary noises of unconsciousness that the person doesn't know they're making (like when you snore, I guess).

I know she's generalising and of course this is what most people want to hear...and perhaps it is what happens for a lot of people...but that wasn't my experience of losing my Mum AT ALL. At least, it was up to a point, but at the actual moment of death, having been unconscious for many many days, she bloody 'woke up', for about 30 seconds. She appeared to be crying (or at least her eyes were heavily watering) and basically suffocated in front of us while seeming to stare at me with a terrified look in her eyes.

It was so, so, so bloody awful and I will never get over it. I can still see it in my mind's eye with absolute clarity. I feel so so sorry for what she must have been feeling in that moment. I've spoken to two friends who also lost a parent who was about the same age (60-ish) and they have said the same thing; and also said that they weren't aware this was a thing that happened and it was an awful shock.

So what gives? Were our relatives just unlucky or is this actually more common than people realise? Or is it actually all purely physical and she wouldn't have know anything clutching at straws-

I've googled it but most people seem to refer to a 'non-peaceful death' as one where the person was very upset towards/about the end of their life, rather than this 'waking up' thing.

Sorry in advance for starting possibly the most depressing and awful thread imaginable! I just find it so difficult to talk to anyone IRL about becasue of aforementioned problems (this has taken a long time to write as you can imagine!!)

I'm struggling to read some of these but happy to add my own experiences. My Mum and my Nan both died very peacefully. Both were deeply asleep and just stopping breathing. Gaps between breaths became longer and longer. My Mum in fact died with a small smile on her face. I like to think whatever she was smiling at was truly lovely. There are no death horror stories in my family thankfully and I haven't heard any either.

I worked in care and it varies enormously. Some are calm/peaceful, others not.

But none have left me with lasting scars or scared if that makes sense. It's a natural process when the body shuts down, but it's as unique to each person as life is.

I was with my dh when he died aged 50 last year. He died of cancer, in pain, he was conscious almost to the end and his heart or something gave up and then he was gasping for breath.

no he didn’t die peacefully or painlessly. I will never ever forget it

i did dream of him a day or two later and he was whole and well and at peace

Good on you for sitting with him until his family arrived ♥️

I was with my dad as he died. That broke my heart, I did unsuccessful CPR on a neighbour in the street but he died. His wife blanks me in the street. Time passes and you rationalise that it was their time.

I’ve seen 2 people die, both on syringe drivers in hospital and the first (who had cancer) it was not peaceful. I actually replayed it in my head pretty much hourly for many years. He looked like he was in pain and all of this black stuff came out of his nose and mouth.

Ten years later I was with my Dad at the end (COPD) and I was expecting it to be the same and I was prepared for it but it was really peaceful, his breathing slowed and just stopped.

I was present at both my grandparents deaths. 1 at home which was traumatic as he most definitely suffered it was not peaceful and for many years it haunted the family that he suffered in such a way. The other was in hospital (similar circumstances in that it was lung condition) but made better by the fact we knew what was happening and asked for her to be sedated/suctioned so that the suffering element wasn’t there and her breathing just slowed to a stop. I’ve decided when my time comes I would prefer a hospice/hospital death over a home death. A good death is important to the person and the family.

I've watched two people die, and I wish I'd read Kathryn Mannix's book With The End In Mind first. In both cases it was actually very peaceful, although obviously distressing because I loved both the people in question. The more recent one six months ago was my father, and his death was very sudden and unexpected - he was in hospital for a day after having felt tired for a couple of weeks, and then suddenly becoming very unwell and unable to walk. He was distressed and anxious and in a lot of pain for the first 24 hours in hospital, but for the six or so hours after that he was calmer and less conscious, and his actual death was very quiet and moving.

Death is a part of life, and we all need to talk about it more I think. It's the thing that most gives life meaning. My father's death was horrible for those of us left here - but I don't believe it was horrible for him, and it was a privilege to have shared those sacred moments with him on his transition between life and death. I'm so sorry that your experience with your mother wasn't as healing and I would really recommend talking to someone about it, reading about death and listening to podcasts. I really recommend Griefcast with Cariad Lloyd, and Kathryn Mannix's book. It may seem macabre and morbid but it really isn't.

I'm not afraid of dying now (and I have cancer which is currently in remission but has a 50% five year survival rate, so I've thought about it a lot).

Yes my dad died while I was next to him. Holding his hand in bed it was very peaceful

I missed my parents' deaths, as Mum insisted she be alone with Dad. When she went eight years later, we were out of the country.

I knew on both occasions the exact time.

I've also witnessed three sudden deaths, one of which is still vivid after 40 years. All of them motorbike crashes, the last one caused by an ignorant driver who I helped put in prison. That helped a lot.

I find as I get older that it help to visualise my own death. It will come someday, and I hope to face it with courage and a minimum of bad language.

I sat with my dad when he died. He just took a big breath, let out a massive sigh, then went.

Very peaceful

Thank you for raising this topic - it’s something that doesn’t get talked about enough imo. My fathers death in hospital was peaceful. He was in his 90’s with bowel cancer. He was not in any pain and slipped away in the early hours his favourite classic Fm playing on the radio. Prior to his passing he’d been sleeping most of the time.

I have no reason to believe that the moment death is anything but blissful. The brain sends masses of endorphins through our bodies on its way out and according to a book I recently read about the work of pathologist, even in traumatic deaths, corpses are found with peaceful expression without looks of fear or distress. Our bodies have no vested interest in making us suffer or fight needlessly once death is inevitable.

This is what happened for my mum. She has been pretty much unconscious for a week at that point, though she had had a very short period of being agitated ( maybe half an hour to an hour) before they upped her sedation at the beginning of that week which worked very well for her

My sister was a different matter she was not too bad until the very end when she started vomiting lots of black blood and calling for our mother in a lot of distress. That was a traumatic death that I still remember 25 years later . It didn't last long though , again maybe half an hour or so before she died but it was pretty awful

DH woke up, looked for me, reached out so I took his hand and told him it was OK, it was OK to go and see his mum and dad if he needed to and that everyone loved him. That I loved him more than he would ever know. Then he just stopped breathing. He had been quite agitated at one point in the night and we had to wait an hour for the nurses to get to us, it must've been the third or fourth time they had been out to him that day and they tweaked the medication in his syringe driver which settled him nicely. Once he had died he lost his haunted, sick look and looked peaceful which I am very grateful for. We called 111 who came out and certified his death then we all sat with him until we were ready to call the funeral directors to come and take him.

Dad died in a hospice and again it was very peaceful, he didn't even wake, he just stopped breathing.

My lovely grandad knew he was going to die a few hours before he did. I was visiting with my mum (his daughter) and gran (his wife). He was being wonderfully looked after by the NHS nurses, I can't say enough how fantastic they were and how well they looked after him in his final hours. He was sitting up and talking and asked for a Sprite which I went and got and which he enjoyed. He told us a few of his friends had been to visit him -they hadn't as they were all friends who had died but we smiled and agreed. When it was time to leave he told me to tell the grandchildren he loved them and I said I would see him soon. He chucked at this and held my hand. He died a few hours later in his sleep peacefully. I take great comfort that he was content, not worried or sad and that his friends had "visited" (despite not being spiritual or religious this always felt wonderful to me). He definitely knew.
My gran died a few years later having never quite recovered from losing him. They had met at 13 years old and had always adored each other. She also died peacefully and comfortably. My mum had a dream that night that her parents and grandparents were waving at her from beside a stream, they then turned and walked away together ❤️

I’ll add mine in the hope it may bring some peace.
Firstly- I had my own near death experience after a huge PPH. I knew without a doubt I was in serious trouble, I could see and hear the very many medical staff around me, frantically trying to get cannulas and fluid into me, the calls of what my blood pressure was (41 over 19), and being told to lie down. I kept saying no, because I was sure I would die if I did. I was looking at my husband cradling our newborn and wondering how he would cope on his own. But I felt no fear, just a curiosity and peaceful acceptance. I obviously was fine eventually, but my brain was calm.

I also was with my dad and mil at the end. My dad had cancer, and fought very hard and it was expected, but when the time came it was peaceful. Like others have described he seemed to just be dozing, with the gaps between each breath becoming further apart and more shallow, with the odd deep one until they finally stopped. From the window we could see a grassed area in the distance, and within moments of his passing it seemed to almost light up, and I saw a gate I hadn’t noticed before, and I felt that was where he was headed. In my head, I could see him healthy and approaching it with interest, wanting to see behind it.
We didn’t stay long with him- he’d gone, and was just simply not there. The way out was either up or down a stone staircase, and I know without a doubt he went out if that room and hospital with us on that staircase, laughing and bouncing to be finally out. It was a windy day and later in the day I went for a walk, whichever direction I turned in it was right in my face, and I was sure it was him staying with me.
Not long after I dreamed of him. He was his usual self, before the illness, and he just wanted to ask me questions and talk to me about things he’d missed in the last weeks of life.
I know it sounds fanciful, but it brought me peace and reassurance that maybe there is still the unknown in the world that either helps us to face things, or makes coping possible, a switch that be flicked to stop the trauma, and just maybe- something more beyond.

My dad died suddenly at home from an undiagnosed pulmonary embolism

I was 11, he was 47

It was horrific; he basically suffocated to death because of the blood clot blocking the artery in is lung. I know he was terrified because he wet himself

There was absolutely nothing me or my brother (13 at the time) could have done to save him but I still wonder 25 years later if we could have done CPR or something till the ambulance arrived, would it have helped/made a difference?

I wasn't present when my lovely grandad died in hospital a few years ago, but I work at the hospital and went to see him not long after he had gone, he was still warm. He looked peaceful, like he'd fallen asleep (mouth agape) but that's not to say he died peacefully as I wasn't there

Don't dwell on such thoughts @HangingOver because death is beyond our control

@AngelinaFangelina My grandma was convinced my grandad had been to visit when she was dying, he had died 8 years before.

She kept saying Harry has been, he was sat in that chair, he is waiting for me.
The nurse said it was really common. Science explains it as lucid dreaming and your body being flooded by hormones to ease your passing but who knows?

This is an amazing if tough thread; we should all talk openly about death in all its forms, our fears and hopes etc. I saw my dad die, he just went to sleep that was it. Slow breathing and nothing else.

that made me weep for my dad. I hope you're right, it sounds beautiful

I’ve seen two people die, my mother and my mother in law.
Mum was in a hospice and my sister and I we’re called by the hospice early one Sunday, they thought the end was close and when we got there mum was sat up in bed. After a while she went to sleep but seemed agitated, at one point she said she was frightened, a nurse gave her some extra pain relief,( she was already on a syringe driver but needed a top up now and again.)
Her breathing changed through the night. Raspy, gaspy breathing, she died at 8.00am on the Monday morning, she’d seemed peaceful through the night after the injection but just before she died her eyes squeezed tight shut (they were already closed) and she grimaced, just fleetingly but it was there. Her breathing stopped, and her face relaxed, she looked so calm, her face was lovely, unlined and beautiful. The nurses asked if we wanted to wash her but we were to upset so they did all. They were so kind.
MIL also had cancer, liver and breast. She was also on a syringe driver but needed no extra mediation. She had dementia but knew who we were. Her eldest son, my DH,cwas 100 miles away, working. I rang him and said come home as soon as you can. He did and picked me up on route to the hospital. MIL was drowsy but rousable, as soon as she heard DH’s voice she was wreathed in smiles and said I waited for you. We both sat with her, holding her hands.
Her death came about two hours after we got there. She brought up the brownish blackish liquid you mentioned it wasn’t very pleasant to see but she didn’t seem to be in pain. The nurse said it was secretions from her stomach which sometimes happens. We sat with her for an hour and then the nurses said they needed to prepare her, but we could go back when they’d finished. When we saw her again, they’d washed her, combed her hair and put a new nightgown on, and taken the drips and S/driver away. They’d also opened the window and dimmed the lights a little.

My FIL and their daughter arrived after she’d passed.

When people die, they wet themselves. There are no muscles working to hold on to urine. Please don't think he was terrified.

CPR wouldn't have made any difference in his case. It sounds as if you did all the right things.

I was with my mother when she died. She had been in hospital for about 6 weeks recovering from pneumonia and then went in to rehabilitation for 10 days after which she had gone home. My siblings had all been to see her in the care home but I had not been able to get up to her - I live about 3 hours away - but I came up to see her the day before. Normally when I stayed I would go out for a meal with my son who lived near by and she would be in bed asleep when I got back. That evening she wanted to talk to me about what she wanted for her funeral before she would go to sleep.

The following day I went to get some shopping for her and when I came back she told me that she thought she was having a heart attack and she was adamant that DNR order she had be respected. I called 999 and the ambulance arrived within 10 minutes and she told the crew she did not want to be resuscitated but they decided to give her pain relief but before they could give her any she died with a slight groan. She was 85 and had been married to my father for nearly 60 years and after he died she really didn't want to go on.

I think she waited for me to visit so she had seen all her children before she died.

We didn't know if dad could hear us but we went through his favourite jokes he used to tell us when we were children. The last thing he did was smile. The nurse that came to remove his morphine pump afterwards said he looked so peaceful in death. I would like to think that mum's death just 7 months earlier was as peaceful but she died in hospital from covid during the first week of the March lockdown so I'll never know.