School residential- yes or no

[dogsandcoffee]

Hi all

I posted before asking for advice re my sons school residential- old thread here. www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4375729-School-being-unsympathetic-over-year-6-residential

Things have moved on a bit since then and I wanted to get your opinions on what to do.

The school went into overdrive when they heard ds was unsure about going- they talked the trip up a lot and as a consequence he decided he might want to go. We decided to pay the deposit and see what happened.

about a month ago we went to have a meeting with the headteacher to discuss ds’ food needs and how the place could cater for him. (he has several allergies). We were told that if kids don’t eat much then it’s ok and they’ll fill up when they come back! Also that ds could just have a jacket potato to eat. Seeing as he can’t have butter, cheese or tuna Mayo tho (cos of his allergies) he would be looking at a dry potato or potato and beans to eat.

then there’s his anxiety, which is my main concern. Headteacher told us that some kids will wet their beds and be upset about being away from home and shrugged it off like it was nothing. DS has panic attacks sometimes- full blown ones where he convinced he will die. I’m really worried about how he will cope. He literally doesn’t sleep at all if he’s not in his own bed. Headteacher also shrugged that off and said he can catch up on sleep when he gets back.

im stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he goes I know he won’t be eating or sleeping much and will be crying a lot wanting to be home. If he doesn’t go then he is missing out and will be the only kid in his class not going.

The trip is for 5 days and costs an arm and a leg.

really don’t know what to do!

I would be concerned about the head's blasé attitude. Can you contact the place they're going and talk to the venue about catering and your DS's allergies? I wouldn't be sending my DC on a residential for five days if they had food allergies and I wasn't convinced that the venue were on top of it and could provide him with proper food. A baked potato with beans is okay for one meal, but he can't live on that for a week.

There is a huge amount of pressure put on parents to send their DC on residential trips and generally I do think they're a good thing to build resilience and cement friendships, but there is no 'one size fits all' and other posters have not sent their DC and not regretted it. So I think if he wants to go, you should do all you can to make sure he has can go and that adequate food will be provided, but if he doesn't really want to go I wouldn't force it. It won't be the last time he has an opportunity to do something like this - there will be others.

I have a DS with anxiety ( he is also ND). He isn’t going on the year 6 residential. At his school quite a few children aren’t going. And that’s totally fine

I think in some ways this has become a bigger deal than it needs to be? Going on the residential is unlikely to be life transforming for him. It could be unpleasant for him. It really doesn’t matter in the bigger scheme of things is what I’m trying to say! I’m another one who didn’t go on school residential then travelled on my own at 18. He will find his independence as and when he is ready ( and perhaps with some extra support for his anxiety).

Is he still undecided about going? If so is it worth another chat about exactly what he is worried about? However it might be that he actually can’t make a decision about this and needs you too. You might all feel better if you just say no, decision made.

My Ds did not attend his year 6 residential. When his teacher found out he wasn't going, she told us we were making a big mistake and that we would regret it forever.

Ds was having some significant issues at the time ( turns out he was autistic) and was not really in a good place. He was being bullied and his mental health was declining.

School told us they were going to bill us for the full amount, they didn't in the end. We had no regrets, reports back from the other children were that it was pretty grotty accommodation and not a great trip.
As it was term time. Dh managed to get a relatively cheap short break for him and Ds to Disneyland Paris, whilst the class were away. As Ds was told he had to the reception class if he wouldn't go.

They had a nice time in Disneyland and we don't regret it at all.

Since he is usually quite a sociable child, he will definitely hear lots of fun stories that happened during the trip from his friends. He may regret his decision for not going, which isn’t a bad thing in it self as this will prompt him to be more enthusiastic about the next trip.

if I were you I wouldn’t send my child in with a group of people I deem unprofessional or incapable. I expect basic level of care for an anxious child rather than the blanket policy of stiff upper lip. Can you get in touch with the centre directly to gauge their reaction to your son’s dietary requests?

However, if the staff and teachers are friendly, sensible and approachable and the only issue is my child not being sure whether he should go. Typical worries such as missing home, missing home cooked food, missing his familiar space, then I will encourage him to be adventurous and go.
ultimately a happy and well adjusted child should be adequately challenged (residential trips) for them to develop well. Forceful challenges on an anxious and scared child does more harm than good.

@Punxsutawney that is awful

I am really surprised at the schools forcing nearly everyone to go. These things are expensive.

At ours around 95% go on the Year 4 2 day residental but that drops to around 70-75% for the Year 6 5 day one.

DD didnt go (it was the same week as the 11+) along with around 20 others who stayed for various reasons (11+/cost/anxious about going) they didnt wear school uniform and the school organised activities - went to a local park and bowling off the top of my head. She is now year 8 and hasnt regretted it because she knew why she wasnt going and had a nice week (and got to spend time with different friends).

To me that is how it should be handled. All this trying to force people doest sit right with me

I reread your original thread, unfortunately not being in England I don't know what age Yr10 makes him, but my gut feel having read both is don't send him.

DS aged 10 missed out on the school ski trip as he was ambivalent about going and it was a £200 non refundable deposit. As it turns out it was apparently a great trip and every DC on it had a great time, but DS isn't bitter about it as he knows he could have gone if he'd been unequivocally enthusiastic about it.

£550 is a heck of a lot to spend on something that has at least a 50% chance of going wrong. Speak to your DS again, ask him how he'd feel if you were to tell the school he isn't going and you do something fun instead. His initial reaction should tell you what you need to know , and if he seems genuinely upset about not going then maybe rethink - not because the school tells you to.

At the moment ds is in two minds. He doesn’t want to miss any fun but he isn’t interested in most of the activities and he is very anxious about sleeping away from home. He says he doesn’t know what to do, same as me.

and yes £550 is a huge amount of money down the drain.

I would honestly be shocked if he went and came back happy with it all. He doesn’t even like staying away from home with us for the night, let alone 5 days with no parents, abnormal food etc.

I really feel for you. On balance I would let him go. My daughter has very severe anxiety and spending time away from me shows her she can cope on her own so her anxiety has improved after these sorts of challenges.

Then make the decision for him @dogsandcoffee . If it didn't cost anything I'd say send him, but it's too much money for a social experiment likely to go wrong.

I'm so glad my school days where before these adventure activities were a thing. Thankfully DS enjoys that sort of stuff, but as a fat bookish child I feel certain I'd have made a fool of myself and would have become an even bigger outcast than I already was.

School don't seem well equipped to handle - poor/no substitutions for food allergies, minimising of nighttime meltdowns- I wouldn't trust them not to push him into activities he doesn't want to do.

Gosh some of these stories. Urine soaked clothes, told he'd have to go into YR.

OP it might be that he's the only one not going, but we were told that too and there were 6 of them. @roastedsaltedpeanut has hit the nail on the head. I think that "basic level of care for anxious children" was missing for us. DS did his Y5 residential with more intuitive, sympathetic teachers, but we wouldn't let him go in Y6 when his class teacher, and trip leader, was so adamant he was so fine all the time and we were just overreacting. They just couldn't read him.

Hi OP I totally sympathise as my DC is like this.

For the year 4 residential I collected him each night and took him back early next morning and gave him a packed lunch to take.

Yr5 and 6 were cancelled for covid, but before they were cancelled, DH had booked a week off work and a Bed and breakfast near the site they were staying in and was going to collect each day etc. The year 6 was a France trip and again one of us would have stayed nearby.

DC has only just got to sleep on their own without lying with us at age 12 (ASD) so there was no way he would consent to the overnights.

For the yr7 trip we weren't allowed to collect and drop so he stayed at home with us.

You should absolutely go with your instinct though if you can take a weeks holiday and stay nearby I think you should.

In terms of the allergies - ring the place they are going to. Don't listen to the head teacher. They are not doing the catering. Speak to those who are. My experience of PGL of that's what he's doing is that they are great with 'unusual' diets and allergies. If you can get the food sorted that will make things easier for both of you.

The rest of it you have to go with what you/he feels. It's really difficult to predict whether it will be good for him or horrendous. Kids like him can go either way.

9 times out of 10, I'd say go.
I've done many residentials in Guiding/ Scouting and we generally have the cheery, stiff-upper lip approach to the parents' meeting because there are a lot of parents that underestimate their children and it's parental anxiety talking, not child's need. (We've tried catering for children who allegedly need this or that and so often it wasn't necessary; I'm talking the league of parents sending a well-adjusted child with spaghetti bolognese ready meal because their child couldn't possibly eat extra mild chilli... basically the same food but with chilli beans, or the "gluten-free" child copying their gluten-free friend who then can't understand why they're not able to pick and choose wheat based foods like they do at home)

Where we are talking 1:1 with parents of children with issues, we do cater for their needs. Allergies have a full balanced diet (also other diets such as vegetarian as long as we're informed before the child is on the bus...) Issues like bed wetting are managed with sensitivity, compassion and discretion. Unless its a particularly experienced group, there are normally missing home wobbles and it's very rare for them to continue beyond the first night. They're not alone which makes a big difference.

My concern here is that we've got a complex child, but the headteacher is still in stiff-upper lip mode especially over fairly simple needs like allergen-free diet. If a child can't eat well, they will find it harder managing the other factors too.

DS1 had done several short Beaver trips and struggled with his first Cub camp. This was prior to his ASD diagnosis. I was on site with my other group and found him looking rather lost and exhausted. I couldn't pretend that I hadn't encountered him in that state and took him for some TLC so that he could handle the rest of the camp. The advantage of Scouting was that it wasn't long until the next trip, plus his friend also moved up which made it socially much easier. At least a school trip there are strong social connections. It was a very strange trip being in leader and parent mode simultaneously!

I think you need to have a further discussion with the head/ lead teacher. The issues are not insurmountable, but they need managing appropriately and you need confidence that that can happen. The attitude so far is not encouraging.

I don't think the solution for children who are more vulnerable or who have extra needs is just to exclude them because it might be a bit harder to accommodate those needs. If a child needs different food, support with toileting, extra reassurance, etc, then that's what they need. It doesn't mean they are less worthy of inclusion.

Urine soaked clothes are awful. That poor child should have been given much more care and support by the staff.

The headteacher’s attitude is awful! Being 5 days, and that far from home, with no clear and inclusive plan towards managing his anxiety/allergies and making him feel comfortable, I don’t think I could send him. Or, if he wanted to go, I would book a place nearby with wifi and just work from there for the week (if homeworking is an option).

I have similar worries as my DS has anxiety/ADHD/possible ASD too, and also has multiple severe food allergies along with a selective eating disorder (ARFID), and will probably not eat anything at all cooked for him on site, or sitting in a group with the others. I will have to provide all of his food or else he won’t be going - I am planning to phone the centre and arrange it direct with them, but the school SENCO has been brilliant and says if he wants to go, he will go, and they will make whatever accommodations necessary to make it happen. He has a really good relationship with some of the teachers and TAs so if they are going then I will send him. He has been fine at cub camp but that was only 2 nights, and DH is a leader so he was there! But his trip is near enough to collect him if needed (only 1.5 hours away).

the destination is 5 hours away unfortunately
This would make the decision for me. It's too far for a child with this level of anxiety, potential health issues and staff with the type of attitude you are describing OP.
And why? I can't believe there isn't a suitable venue nearer. We are lucky in so far as we live in a rural area with loads of outward bound type places within easy reach, but I honestly can't believe there is anywhere in the country where you need to travel 5 hours to access this kind of facility. Why subject the children to that kind of journey on a coach, which must surely put the price up given current fuel costs, and isn't very environmentally friendly? Even when our school did city residentials they were only 2-3 hours away. With that kind of journey I bet you are only effectively getting 3 days of activities and 2 days on a coach. I wouldn't be keen on that even without any additional concerns.
If it were fairly local and you could do part of the trip or pick him up relatively easily if it wasn't going well, I would say go for it, but 5 days, 5 hours away with unsympathetic staff - no, I wouldn't risk it.

Seems that he is literally the only one potentially not going. We have been told that he will have to go in with year 5 if he doesn’t go. Feels like a punishment. I feel like saying he will be off that week doing fun stuff with us instead. If the head kicks up a stink I could we’ll point out that she lets other kids have weeks off for holidays etc.

He will poentially have fun with Yr5, he will have the chance to meet other kids. One year mine was the only one not to go, they had a good week. People are overly worried about their kids being 'different' - we are all different in our own ways and that is fine.

You won't get anywhere with the holidays argument I would expect.

If he has shown interest in going, I think you should facilitate it for him (but with appropriate adjustments and support). It sounds from your posts like he is nervous but does at least partially want to go.

@dogsandcoffee what do you think school should offer if he doesn't want to go? Why do you think going into Y5 will be a punishment. I'm assuming all Y6 staff will be on the residential. Does your son have any adjustments made for his anxiety at school, or does it only really manifest itself at home?

And if you can take time off doing fun stuff with him in that week, I would be looking at trying to stay near the venue and let your DS go on the residential (as he wants to) and you can be nearby if he can't cope with sleeping there ( as that seems to be the biggest issue)

Actually I think this is the most reasonable thing you've told us the school have said so far.
Regardless of how you view the trip from your son's perspective, the activities must be regarded as educational and the rest of the children will count as being at school for those days, not on holiday. The school will be obliged to provide an alternative education for those who aren't going. If the vast majority of year 6 are going then it's highly likely that all the year 6 staff are going. In my experience it's common practice in such circumstances for children who aren't going to be set work which they do elsewhere. I would have thought it was nicer to be in a class with other children rather than alone in the secretary's office or whatever. Obviously if a lot of a class are remaining behind you'd expect them to be kept together and a teacher to stay with them, but they can't really do that for one or two.

Yes our Head said my DS would have to go into the years below too, she tried to make it sound like a punishment another trick to try and make them all go my DS didn't want to do this either but in my head I was quietly thinking I would just take him out that week and do some fun stuff like the zoo, science centre etc, whatever really that is still a bit educational but not costing anywhere near the same as the residential! If the worst comes to the worst OP he just happens to be 'ill' that week! What can she say! Just do what is right for your DS. He is torn because he is hearing everything painted in such a positive light at school by teachers and friends. The reality might not be that for him for all the reasons you've said.

I think kids can tell completely when we as parents don’t trust other adults - in this case, the adults who would be leading the trip. If you don’t trust them to keep your child safe, naturally your child doesn’t feel safe either.

In this situation, you’ve got sensible reasons to have doubts about the care that would be provided on the trip. Now, that care might actually be fine - but nothing about the communication so far has enabled you to believe that.

You can only go on the information you have and your own deep knowledge of your child. My feeling is that when he’s ready for a trip like this, you’ll know. There’s little point expecting him to be able to do it before then, but he’ll get there in his own time.