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Ukraine Invasion: Part 23

1003 replies

MagicFox · 28/04/2022 17:24

Welcome all, thanks for the company

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
TiddyTidTwo · 01/05/2022 05:20

An uplifting thread. Wish I could give them a hug

twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1520514834877530117?s=21&t=pscyzO2bpWzFtmF4IE5CYg

OriginalFloorboards · 01/05/2022 06:58

Civil war. Ha. Never heard anything so ridiculous. In fact it’s so ridiculous as a non poster I’ve commented! As if anyone believes that crock.

Tillsforthrills · 01/05/2022 08:12

I think the civil war comments made were about what Russia and their supporters would tell themselves, I don’t think anyone on this thread supports or believes it - they were just explaining how others might view it.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 01/05/2022 08:16

To be fair @RedToothBrush nobody on this thread, including myself, has said that what is happening in Ukraine is a civil war, it is an invasion. I merely pointed out that absolutely horrific stuff happens in both scenarios and has happened in Europe in recent times. You can clearly see the same imprint of evil in both the past and current situations.
Having a difference of opinion on whether this is WWIII territory just means I have a different opinion on what might happen next, it doesn't mean I am in denial about what is happening now.
I will make a solemn promise not to come onto the thread when I am pissed off with DH, it makes me arsey with the wrong people, so I apologise @TiddyTidTwo .

Hope you get to pack up that tent dry RTB.
Off to work again not as a Russian stooge

Mb76 · 01/05/2022 08:18

@ScrollingLeaves Thank you for your kind words. I’m in the U.K. so I am safe, and most of my family are in Germany and some in the USA, we all left Ukraine over 20 years ago. The family I have left in Donetsk are unfortunately of that mindset that believes Putin is great and is going to “liberate” them. It became clear back in 2014 that Russian propaganda had won over there. They blindly believed everything they saw on tv or on (Russian) social media platforms such as OK and VK which have been banned in Ukraine since 2014. I don’t know what the solution is, the “truth” they believe is straight out of putin, lavrov’s etc mouths and their arguments usually go like this “well you aren’t here, and we are and we can see who’s been attacking us” (insinuating Ukraine is the aggressor). How did we get there? Well that article you shared explained it well. I don’t know how to fix this, changing this kind of mindsets will take decades a lot of efforts on both sides.

Tillsforthrills · 01/05/2022 08:21

Looking for updates on Kherson but can’t find any. Would be very interested to know what’s occurring and forgive me if I’m being naive but recently a Ukrainian soldier mentioned how important the Starlink has been in helping them be guided by American intelligence. Is that not available in Kherson?

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 08:29

Nancy Pelosi has been in Kyiv over the past 24 hrs.

alexander2001 · 01/05/2022 08:29

Now when it come to the crunch the big players in the EU are shitting their pants because they've been STUPID

I'll give Putin that. He played Germany like a fiddle

I hate this sort of stuff, EU Bad/Stupid UK Good/Smart.

UK has paid Putin 30 billion for oil and gas alone (since Crimea) 220 million just in oil since the invasion... then consider the laundering of Putin's ill gotten gains through the London property market!

Not too mention the UK or more specifically Johnson, carrying out Brexit, a known Putin supported policy.

We all are responsible for enabling Putin... i do not recall any threads on here or calls in the wider media for more expensive energy or to stop trading with Russia after Georgia or Crimea? No investment in hydrogen?
Where are all the raw materials for EV's going to come from? or Timber used in construction? its not just energy.

Why anyone thinks Germany or France should suddenly stop buying Gas Oil whilst the UK carries on doing so is beyond me, atm there is no alternative and thats down to our so called partners in the Middle East and our own short sightedness..

Ijsbear · 01/05/2022 08:46

OriginalFloorboards · 01/05/2022 06:58

Civil war. Ha. Never heard anything so ridiculous. In fact it’s so ridiculous as a non poster I’ve commented! As if anyone believes that crock.

For heavens sake.

The comments about civil war were about Syria. Not about Ukraine.

In fact to quote:

Ijsbear

When has it ever stopped?

You don't have to go back very far, only about 4-5 years.

Humanity - Some of us can see only the sewage and want to drag everyone else into it, while others see the stars and want people to rise and improve. We're a wide range.

What's happening here is that the war is closer to our doorstep and it's not a civil war but an invasion. But - life is not secure.


Maybe people could bother to read what's actually there before coming out with sharp comments?

strawberriesarenot · 01/05/2022 08:48

Alexander2000
Well said. The UK has nothing to be complacent about re. Past dealings with Russia, and has turned an open blind eye to far too much. Our present government's very visible support for Ukraine is also not disinterested. It's come just in time to save Johnson and co. They are quite cynically using another country's tragedy. I bet in real life Zelensky wouldn't give Johnson the time of day, anymore than he did Trump.

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 08:49

I know it’s so minuscule it can barely be described as a victory but I’m so incredibly happy for the 20 souls that have managed to escape the hell of that steel plant. Small wins are wins none the less and for those people and their family on the outside it’s wonderful. Clearly it will be bittersweet because there are so many still trapped but I’ll take good news wherever I can find it these days.

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 08:50

strawberriesarenot · 01/05/2022 08:48

Alexander2000
Well said. The UK has nothing to be complacent about re. Past dealings with Russia, and has turned an open blind eye to far too much. Our present government's very visible support for Ukraine is also not disinterested. It's come just in time to save Johnson and co. They are quite cynically using another country's tragedy. I bet in real life Zelensky wouldn't give Johnson the time of day, anymore than he did Trump.

Agree! There is a reason it’s often called Londongrad!

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 08:55

Has anyone seen the commentary about Chinese state media publishing interviews with both Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers. View seems to be it’s a muted but significant step to give both the same platform.

borntobequiet · 01/05/2022 08:55

Well said. The UK has nothing to be complacent about re. Past dealings with Russia, and has turned an open blind eye to far too much

Agreed.

Natsku · 01/05/2022 09:09

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 08:49

I know it’s so minuscule it can barely be described as a victory but I’m so incredibly happy for the 20 souls that have managed to escape the hell of that steel plant. Small wins are wins none the less and for those people and their family on the outside it’s wonderful. Clearly it will be bittersweet because there are so many still trapped but I’ll take good news wherever I can find it these days.

That is such good news, at least those 20 people and their families will have relief now.

MagicFox · 01/05/2022 09:16

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 08:55

Has anyone seen the commentary about Chinese state media publishing interviews with both Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers. View seems to be it’s a muted but significant step to give both the same platform.

Yes I've seen this, some of the analysis I've seen suggests China have played it smart by doing this as a performance of neutrality while rhetoric generally is heavily pro-Russian

OP posts:
Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 09:17

Natsku · 01/05/2022 09:09

That is such good news, at least those 20 people and their families will have relief now.

BBC reporting that Zelensky thinks there is hope for more evacuations today as the ceasefire is holding.

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 09:18

MagicFox · 01/05/2022 09:16

Yes I've seen this, some of the analysis I've seen suggests China have played it smart by doing this as a performance of neutrality while rhetoric generally is heavily pro-Russian

I had seen stuff like this but also have to remind myself our media (and that extends to Twitter commentators from the west etc) is decidedly anti-Chinese.

L1ttledrummergirl · 01/05/2022 09:29

I know it's probably a bit like cutting my nose of to spite my face, but if I was in Russian occupied territory and they were stealing our grain and taking it to Russia, I would burn it.
If I can't have nor can they.

If I'm going to starve, so will they.

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2022 09:33

Ukraine is blaming Russia for the internet outage in Kherson region saying they bombed cables.

Russia is blaming Ukraine.

I can't see any other news this morning.

The only other piece of info of note I can find is a tweet from an American

James Vasquez AT jamesvasquez
Don’t forget I’m not signed with anyone. Rules are a little different for me

The reason I mention this is because of what the tweets from Canadian Volunteer said about a group volunteering for a mission behind enemy lines and rules of war not applying to him.

Effectively this is an admission of covert ops going on which are being carried out by foreign mercenaries.

I don't think this is a surprise. I think its slightly surprising (and foolish) to be quite so open about it. If one is caught it will potentially blow up diplomatically.

Ijsbear · 01/05/2022 09:43

Some are questioning if Canadian Volunteer is what he says he is.

In other news:-

Victor Kovalenko
@MrKovalenko
·
5h
On April 30, #Ukraine attacked the occupied Snake Island in the Black Sea & destroyed 3 Russian anti-air guns, one anti-air system "Strela-10" (SA-13 "Gopher"), a communication vehicle, and 42 Russian invaders. Source: the South command of UAF. (Archive photo)

Igotjelly · 01/05/2022 09:47

Ijsbear · 01/05/2022 09:43

Some are questioning if Canadian Volunteer is what he says he is.

In other news:-

Victor Kovalenko
@MrKovalenko
·
5h
On April 30, #Ukraine attacked the occupied Snake Island in the Black Sea & destroyed 3 Russian anti-air guns, one anti-air system "Strela-10" (SA-13 "Gopher"), a communication vehicle, and 42 Russian invaders. Source: the South command of UAF. (Archive photo)

I would imagine Twitter and the rest of social media is rife with people pretending to be some sort of war hero. Either to get attention or to stir the pot.

baroqueandblue · 01/05/2022 09:49

I read that Canadian Volunteer post and thought it was a satire on some Dangerous Adventures for Boys book.

TargusEasting · 01/05/2022 09:58

2 days ago. From Yuri Butusov at Censor.net.

Generally, I find this source mostly factually correct, though less moderate in tone.

This article is bullish and may not be indicative of the whole situation in the region. These are not easy villages to defend. But it does beg the question of why Russia is unable to get half-decent kit to some of its troops, who are only 10 miles inside the Ukraine border.

Note the 65 year old wired telephone systems - the sort the German army rolled out on hand-held drums during WW2. It is not impossible some may even have been captured German stock. Essentially we are talking about wires rolled out over the battlefield to allow commanders to talk to each other! I saw something similar on Antiques Roadshow once.

I am mindful of the 700,000 Russian troops allegedly in reserve. We can very, very crudely cut that number down by half for frictional retirements, admin staff and minimum security in the regions and perhaps those who do not even exist. It is pretty reasonable to expect that 'ghost soldiers' existed on the Russian payroll as they did on Afghanistan's. This is a country whose oligarch's spent more on yachts that the Northern Fleet were given to upgrade its boats. That leaves 300,000 in reserve and we might then cut that down by another half for air force and navy personnel and other branches whose roles do not lend themselves to this offensive. Even so, personnel should be trained first and foremost as an "infantryman" - capable of being used in the frontline. So I am troubled as to why we are not seeing more decent kit being brought up to the frontline. I have not seen any plausible explanation, though the obvious conclusion is that it does not exist. Unshakeable proof of that is still awaited.

Note - The 'lease' YB is referring to I presume is the US new Lend Lease programme specifically for Ukraine.

The Russian army has almost no heavy weapons, transport is lacking, and general mobilization is failing. Putin's hopes of prolonging the war in Ukraine have not materialized.

Russia does not have the resources to carry out universal mobilization and wage a long war.

Today our troops liberated the villages of Kutuzovka and Momotovo in the Kharkiv region.

The villages were defended by units of the infantry battalion of the 1st Army Corps, formed from those mobilized in the Donetsk region, among them were people with combat experience, deployed defense, buried.

In a short attack, more than 30 enemy soldiers were killed, the rest escaped, there are prisoners.

The enemy's weapons are poor. The villages are entangled with TA-57 field telephone wires, there is no radio communication for those mobilized in the Russian Armed Forces, they were not given bulletproof vests, steel helmets, most without first aid kits at all. And those who have standard first-aid kits of the RF Armed Forces, ours do not take them as trophies, no one needs Esmarch's plaits.

Lots of infantry weapons, but nothing modern. Heavy weapons are not available. There is a lack of transport, civilian cars are in very poor condition.
There are no arms supplies for them.

Therefore, what can be the general mobilization of the Russian army - can be seen in the example of mobilized "DNR". Putin has no weapons for hundreds of thousands of unmotivated and poorly trained soldiers. The Russians will be armed as well as the DNR, they have no other resources. Putin does not have enough resources to strengthen his army.

In general, Putin's hopes of prolonging the war in Ukraine do not come true. As soon as the lease for Ukraine goes wide, the Ukrainian army will gradually gain the upper hand, and the Russian army will receive the most devastating defeat in the history of the 21st century.

Yuri Butusov Джерело: censor.net/ua/r3337825

PaperTyger · 01/05/2022 10:02

No one can deny nrhe role everyone who has courted Putin way back to bush and Blair can take some blame.
Listen to the brilliant podcast on Putin.

Bush declaring how he "gazed jnto Putin's eye's and saw his soul" 🤣.

However that doesn't excuse the mysterious posturing of Germany right now! There are undoubtedly hazy links there all around gas.

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